In this episode, we hear the second half of the conversation between CHESS Vice President of Value-based Operations, Josh Vire, and Wilson Gabbard, Advocate Health Vice President of Quality and Condition Management, who discuss the importance of partnerships with payers and implementing value based care practices with all patients, even if they aren’t in a value-based arrangement.

Wilson, thank you so much for being willing to stick around and continue this conversation. I really appreciate it. Wilson, you had just talked about on our last episode, you, you talked about clinician engagement, that relationship management and that activation. And, and this is something that I think you guys have been leaders in for a while in the Midwest. You your team not only supports the Medical Group of Advocate, but also support a large CIN that includes a significant number of aligned independent physicians in the area. Can you talk a little bit about the challenges of supporting aligned physicians versus the Advocate Medical Group?

Well, absolutely. And thanks again, Josh for inviting me to participate in this forum. So, I think, you know, we certainly don't have all of this figured out. I'd be lying if I said we did, but I think many of our listeners will probably appreciate the challenge that it is to operate in both of these worlds. And in our space, especially here in Illinois, it's especially pronounced. I think we have over 830 aligned clinics that participate in our clinically integrated network. And so the challenge that we talked a little bit about last time or about the data exchange and data exchange barriers is incredible, especially at that scale. But I think true clinical integration is really hard to accomplish without strong data and handoffs. And so I think we've leaned into this space of trying to bridge that gap with data exchange efforts. Again, time back to some of the work we're doing in ECQM reporting to kind of bridge the gap between those aligned DMRS and our data warehouses so that our reporting is as accurate and as timely as possible. That we are reaching out to patients for Medicare Wellness visits, annual Wellness visits. But when we can go in and see in an electronic means that they're already scheduled for those Wellness visits that we aren't, that we build off of care plans when we're doing care coordination activities that their PCT and their instances of EMRs have already documented. And so that is very hard work. And again, we're not completely there yet. If anyone listening has figured it all out, please add me on LinkedIn and give me a call because I'd be happy to hear from CIN who has figured it all out from the provider-based space. But anyway, it's certainly a challenge, but I think that it has applications across what we do in quality or condition management or utilization management. And I think that all of the principles about clinician activation that we talked about last time and kind of building out those teams and points of contacts are critically important to translate those messages that we do. I call it internally, I call it we have one strategy with different flavors, right. We have a flavor that is applicable to our internal clinicians on their instance of their EMR. And we have a different flavor that is applicable to the clinicians who maybe are on dozens of different EMRs.

Yeah, that's, that's great. It's I will accept your modesty, but also toot your horn a little bit. That why you guys may not have it figured out. You, you guys just evidence here in this conversation are pretty good at it and are probably more advanced than a lot of the other folks. And, and really impressed every time I talk with you guys about how you approach and work with your line providers. It's not an easy thing to do. We've been at this for a long time as well at CHESS and, and, and I think you highlighted accurately some of those challenges. So I appreciate...