Christine Renaud always felt destined to be a teacher, but after training in education, she came to a disturbing realization – traditional schools were not created to develop students effectively. Determined to better support students’ learning, growth, and happiness, Christine founded Braindate, a pioneering technology company that has created transformative conversations and experiences for over a million participants in 100 countries.

Christine is a distinguished keynote speaker, Startup Canada’s “Entrepreneur of the Year,” and the CEO and founder of Braindate. Using a background in education and a Master’s education from Harvard, she aims to create innovative technologies, spaces, and books that facilitate meaningful learning.

In this episode, Dart and Christine discuss:
- Unschooling, home-schooling, and alternative education
- The philosophy and origins of Braindate
- The relationship between Anarchism and education
- Benefits of peer-to-peer learning
- Using deep networking in different social contexts
- Creating a business that reflects your ideals
- Hurdles to collaborative learning
- And other topics…

Christine Renaud is the CEO and founder of Braindate, a pioneering technology company that has created transformative conversations and experiences for over a million participants in 100 countries. Using her background in education and Master’s education at Harvard, she has dedicated her career to creating innovative technologies, spaces, and books that facilitate meaningful learning.

A passionate advocate for women in leadership and technology, Christine has been recognized as one of the "Most Innovative People in the Events Industry" by Bizbash, "Entrepreneur of the Year" by Startup Canada, and among the "Canadian Inspiring Fifty." She is also a sought-after keynote speaker, presenting at international events such as IBTM World (Barcelona, Spain), the World Innovation Summit in Education (Doha, Qatar), Morgan Stanley Women’s Leadership Summit (Chicago, USA), and Tech Open Air (Berlin, Germany).

Connect with Christine:
www.Braindate.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinerenaud

Despite their revolutionary zeal, followers of Marx have failed to create real economic democracies, frequently ending up with one-party systems that mirror the capitalist structures they sought to overthrow. A compelling alternative exists: a modern vision for economic democracy and employee-owned cooperatives. By examining the historical missteps and unveiling innovative approaches, we discover how true democratic firms can thrive today.

David Ellerman is a distinguished economist, philosopher, and author with a career focused on the crossroads of economics, philosophy, and organizational theory. He has held prominent roles, such as an economic advisor at the World Bank, where he played a key role in shaping development policy and institutional reforms. Before his time at the World Bank, David was a visiting scholar at the University of California, Riverside, and lectured at Boston University.

In this episode, Dart and David discuss:
- The historical context of labor contracts and alienation
- Differences between alienable and inalienable rights
- The link between performance management systems and American slavery
- The flawed basis of Marxist and traditional economic theories
- Real-world examples of democratic firms and worker cooperatives
- The evolution and impact of ESOPs (Employee Stock Ownership Plans)
- The psychological cost of layoffs in an organization
- The role of economic theories in shaping organizational practices
- And other topics…

David Ellerman is a renowned economist, philosopher, and author who has dedicated his career to exploring the intersections of economics, philosophy, and organizational theory. David has held influential positions, including serving as an economic advisor at the World Bank, where he contributed to development policy and institutional reforms. Prior to his tenure at the World Bank, he also served as a visiting scholar at the University of California, Riverside, and as a lecturer at Boston University.

David's books include Helping People Help Themselves and The Democratic Worker-Owned Firm, both of which have been highly regarded in the fields of economics and organizational theory. He has also written extensively for academic journals and popular outlets, contributing to the discourse on economic development, property theory, and worker ownership. David holds his BA in Mathematics from MIT and his PhD in Economics from Boston University.

Resources mentioned:
Helping People Help Themselves by David Ellerman: https://www.amazon.com/Helping-People-Help-Themselves-Alternative-ebook/dp/B071FH7C9Y/
The Democratic Worker-Owned Firm by David Ellerman: https://www.amazon.com/Democratic-Worker-Owned-Firm-Routledge-Revivals/dp/1138892653/
Mondragon Corporation: https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/
Anna's Archive: https://annas-archive.gs/?

Connect with David:
Website: https://www.ellerman.org/

Kentaro Toyama spent a decade designing technologies to fight global poverty and improve education and health. As co-founder of Microsoft Research India lab, he made a troubling discovery – innovative technologies can’t create change on their own. Realizing that social progress depends more on people than on the technology they use, Kentaro became a self-proclaimed “geek heretic” who now teaches others the importance of putting people over tech.

Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy. Kentaro is also the co-founder of Microsoft Research India, where he helped grow the lab into 60 full-time research staff.

In this episode, Dart and Kentaro discuss:
- Why technology needs a human touch to succeed
- Kentaro’s leadership at Microsoft Research India
- The 10 fallacies of technology
- Why the most important areas of focus are unmeasurable
- The pitfalls of focusing on the end-goal
- How to create societal change
- Innovation versus tried-and-true approaches
- The law of amplification
- 3 elements of intrinsic growth
- And other topics…

Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan School of Information, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and Transformative Values at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy: Rescuing Social Change from the Cult of Technology. Before moving to Michigan, Kentaro co-founded Microsoft Research India, where he helped grow the lab into 60 full-time research staff.

Kentaro received his PhD in Computer Science from Yale and his bachelors in mathematics from Harvard University. He went on to establish the Technology for Emerging Markets research group, which investigates how the world’s poorest communities interact with technology and ways to support socioeconomic development. Kentaro is also a former researcher for UC Berkeley and former co-editor-in-chief of the Information Technologies and International Development journal.

Resources mentioned:
Geek Heresy, by Kentaro Toyama: https://www.amazon.com/Geek-Heresy-Rescuing-Social-Technology/dp/161039528X

Connect with Kentaro:
www.kentarotoyama.org

Work for Humans wants to understand what people want from work – but every perspective is different. One person’s dream job is another person’s nightmare, making it challenging to define fulfilling work. Derek Sivers captures this struggle in his book, How to Live, which presents 27 drastically different yet equally valid life views. Through his work, Derek guides others in shaping their own meaningful and unique lives.

Derek Sivers is an author, entrepreneur, and speaker known for founding CD Baby, the largest seller of independent music of its time. After selling CD Baby for $22 million in 2008 and donating all the money to charity, Derek began writing and sharing his insights on business, creativity, and living a fulfilling life.

In this episode, Dart and Derek discuss:
- How our beliefs direct our actions
- The 27 ways to live from Derek’s book
- Crafting a company’s personality
- Using beliefs as a listening tool at work
- Derek’s biggest surprise in writing How to Live
- Nature vs. nurture
- Data models as philosophical experiences
- And other topics…

Derek Sivers is an author, entrepreneur, and speaker known for founding CD Baby, once the largest seller of independent music. Derek sold CD Baby for $22M in 2008 and donated all the money to charity, transitioning to writing and sharing insights on business, creativity, and personal development. His books, such as How to Live, offer practical advice and philosophical reflections on living a meaningful life. His latest book, Useful Not True, will be released in 2024.

Resources mentioned:
How to Live, by Derek Sivers: https://www.amazon.com/How-Live-Conflicting-Answers-Question/dp/B09JBMN6Q7
Useful Not True, by Derek Sivers: https://sive.rs/u
“50 Conversations in Bangalore and Chennai,” by Derek Sivers: https://sive.rs/meet-chbg

Connect with Derek:
https://sive.rs/

Paul Zak has been on a quest for two decades to understand the neuroscience of human connection, human happiness, and effective teamwork. From the Pentagon to Fortune 500 boardrooms to the rainforest of Papua New Guinea, Paul’s research has now led him to found Immersion Neuroscience, the first company to track and measure real-time immersion in experiences. His latest book, Immersion, uses 50,000 brain measurements to show readers how to create high-impact marketing, entertainment, training, customer experiences, and employee experiences.

Paul J. Zak is an acclaimed professor, speaker, and neuroscientist who is ranked in the top 0.3% of most-cited scientists worldwide. During his career, he started the interdisciplinary fields of neuroeconomics, neuromanagement, and neuromarketing. Paul has written three general audience books, is a 5-time TED speaker with over two million views, and has spoken to audiences across 30 countries, including recent talks at NATO Supreme Headquarters, Google, Facebook, and Harvard University.

In this episode, Dart and Paul discuss:
- What it means to be immersed in your work experience
- Work as a social-emotional hub
- How oxytocin creates trust, empathy, and care at work
- 2 things you need to create an extraordinary experience
- The research behind effective advertising
- Neuromanagement
- The connection between autonomy, mastery, and job satisfaction
- Scientific reasons why dogs are better than cats
- And other topics…

Paul J. Zak is an acclaimed professor, speaker, and neuroscientist who is ranked in the top 0.3% of most-cited scientists with over 180 published papers and more than 19,000 citations to his research. His two decades of research have taken him from the Pentagon to Fortune 500 boardrooms to the rainforest of Papua New Guinea. During his career, he has also started several interdisciplinary fields including neuroeconomics, neuromanagement, and neuromarketing. He has written three general audience books, is a 5-time TED speaker with over two million views, and has spoken to audiences across 30 countries.

Paul is the founder of Immersion Neuroscience, the first company to track and measure immersion in experiences in real time. His latest book, Immersion, identifies the neurologic basis for extraordinary experiences and uses 50,000 brain measurements to show readers how to create high-impact marketing, entertainment, training, customer experiences, and employee experiences.

Paul holds his doctorate in economics from the University of Pennsylvania and completed post-doctoral training in neuroimaging at Harvard University. He has taught at Caltech, Arizona State University, UC Riverside, and USC Law and is a current professor at Claremont Graduate University.

Resources mentioned:
Immersion, by Paul J. Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Immersion-Science-Extraordinary-Source-Happiness/dp/1544531958

Connect with Paul:
https://www.getimmersion.com/
https://pauljzak.com/

Matt Higgins was a struggling teen, working at McDonald’s for $3.75/hr to put food on the table for his ailing mother. When he saw the pay increase offered to college students, he decided to do something unorthodox; he dropped out of high school, got his GED, and enrolled in college. Adults tried to talk him out of it, but Matt knew this was the right choice for him.

This was Matt's first "burn the boats" moment, but it wasn't his last. In fact, Matt believes this burn-the-boats mindset has defined his career, and has led him to places like Shark Tank, Harvard Business School, and beyond. Today, he joins us on Work For Humans to discuss the Burn the Boats philosophy.

Matt is the co-founder and CEO of RSE Ventures, a private equity firm that incubates and invests in enterprises like the International Champions Cup, RESY, and the Drone Racing League. He is the recipient of the Ellis Island Medal of Honor, a current executive fellow at Harvard Business School, and the author of Burn the Boats.

In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:
- How backup plans subvert our potential
- Emotional intelligence and intuition in decision-making
- Using anxiety to drive us
- Assessing opportunity costs
- Extracting value from negative situations
- Acting early and taking risks for greater results
- Elon Musk and Twitter
- And other topics…

Matt Higgins is an operator, investor, business builder, and co-founder and CEO of RSE Ventures. Matt Began his career as the youngest press secretary in New York City, later becoming an executive for the New York Jets and the Miami Dolphins. As CEO of RSE Ventures, Matt and co-founder Stephen Ross have helped establish enterprises like the International Champions Cup, RESY, and the Drone Racing League.

Matt received his bachelor’s degree from Queens College and his JD from Fordham University. He was a guest shark on ABC’s Shark Tank and is an executive fellow at Harvard Business School. In 2019, Matt received the Ellis Island Medal of Honor for making it his mission to share his wealth of knowledge with those less fortunate. Matt recently published his first book, Burn the Boats, to continue to inspire others to toss Plan B overboard and go all in on Plan A.

Resources Mentioned:
Burn the Boats, by Matt Higgins: https://www.amazon.com/Burn-Boats-Overboard-Unleash-Potential/dp/006308886X

Connect with Matt:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-higgins-rse/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mhiggins/?hl=en
www.BurntheBoatsBook.co

Work for Humans host Dart Lindsley experienced a distressing moment in the hospital when his father was left in a wheelchair facing a wall while awaiting radiology. This small but significant oversight in the hospital's system pointed to an issue in many major systems – a lack of human-centered care. Recognizing these widespread oversights, design and strategy expert Deirdre Cerminaro seeks to address such problems through human-centered systems thinking. By redesigning systems to prioritize human experiences, Deirdre now teaches others how to problem solve by combining systems and human-centric design.

Deirdre Cerminaro is a creative strategist, IDEO U instructor, and speaker who excels in organizational design, strategy, and human-centered systems thinking. With over 15 years of experience, including her time as an architectural designer and former Executive Director at IDEO, Deirdre is dedicated to using systems design to build a more equitable future. Her notable projects range from launching a venture to close the digital skills gap in Latin America to building a global DE&I framework for a Fortune 10 Company.

In this episode, Dart and Deirdre discuss:
- How Deirdre designs her own experience of work
- Human-Centered Systems Thinking
- Real-world problems combining systems and human-centric design
- Deirdre’s experience creating and scaling a K-12 school system internationally
- The relationship between mental models and systems
- Best practices in systems mapping
- How to use the “Zoom In and Zoom Out” design tool
- Managing trade-offs between stakeholders
- And other topics…

Deirdre holds a B.A. in Cognitive Science and an MBA from Yale University. Beyond her professional achievements, Deirdre spends as much time as possible outdoors. She has cycled across the U.S. twice and also hiked the 211-mile John Muir Trail.

Resources mentioned:
“Got a wicked problem? First, tell me how you make toast” TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_wujec_got_a_wicked_problem_first_tell_me_how_you_make_toast?language=en

Connect with Deirdre:
Website: www.hellodeirdre.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrecerminaro/

IDEO U Human-Centered Systems Thinking course: https://www.ideou.com/collections/courses/products/human-centered-systems-thinking Use Promocode SYSTEMSDESIGN for 20% before August 1st

Joe Pine has a knack for seeing workplace trends ahead of others. As a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, he has helped organizations innovatively increase economic value for over three decades.

Joe is a pioneer behind the experience economy, and he is now trailblazing the concept of a transformation economy in his latest book. Join us as we discuss the fifth and final economic offering and how it can impact employees and customers alike.

Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups.

In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:
- Joe’s latest writing project on the transformation economy
- Examples of transformative experiences
- The economic value of customer transformation
- How to recognize different types of transformation
- Work as a transformation offering
- The correlation between transformation and wealth
- How to create transformative experiences for individual aspirations
- Joe’s outlook on the experience-design profession
- And other topics…

Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Northeastern University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years. He is now pioneering the idea of a Transformation Economy through the development of his latest book.

Joe is a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, a lecturer at Columbia University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.

Resources mentioned:
The Experience Economy¸ by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975
Mass Customization, by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727
Work, Pray, Code, by Carolyn Chen: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Pray-Code-Becomes-Religion/dp/0691219087
The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227
The World Experience Organization Summit: www.WorldXO.org

Connect with Joe:
https://transformationsbook.substack.com/
www.StrategicHorizons.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/