How important is the role of sustainability in brewing? How does beer actually get made sustainably when it’s an incredibly energy-intensive process to actually get your beer from the farm to your glass? And how does the industry avoid greenwashing as it attempts to be more responsible about its impact on our climate and the environment?

All these questions and more are answered in our latest podcast episode: An Open Discussion About Sustainability in Beer. Recorded live at IndyManBeerCon in October 2023, this episode features Ben Stubbs of Rivington Brew Co, Chris Drummond of Allkin Brewing, IMBC founder Jonny Heyes, and is hosted by our very own Jonny Hamilton.

At the start of the episode there’s also some reflection from our regular host Matthew Curtis about IMBC’s decision not to hold an event in 2024, and what the festival means to him.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

Cast your mind back to February 2021, when I published episode 20 of this podcast. In an effort to experiment with the format of the show, I’d begun recording long monologues loosely based on the idea that I would ask myself a question and try to both answer and contextualise it in under an hour.

One of the first questions I asked myself was “does cider have an image problem?” And, over the course of about 55 minutes, I sent myself down a rabbit hole of loaded opinion in which I expressed some deep feelings about cider and perry. It proved popular, in fact to date it is the third most popular podcast we’ve ever published. Why it has been listened to so regularly is largely down to the fact it split opinion about 50/50. Some relished the idea of cider’s image being challenged, while others found little to agree with.

One bone I picked at relentlessly during the episode was the existence of a supplier and trade body called Cider is Wine. I considered their use of terminology, in particular its decision to refer to cider and perry as ‘orchard wines’ to be somewhat self-defeatist. I’ve long considered that language and its use to describe alcoholic beverages to be a powerful tool. I also believe that for cider and perry to win more hearts and minds, it needs to be true to itself and not look to beer or wine for answers (or customers). This includes directly referring to itself as wine, and not cider, as Cider is Wine chooses to.

Not long after the episode was published I was contacted by the founder of Cider is Wine, Alistair Morrell, and we had a relatively healthy conversation about my views—well, as healthy as you can do via Twitter and email. What we did agree on, however, was that when Alistair found himself in Manchester we would sit down face to face and record a podcast, which we finally did in November 2023.

Remarkably, as so often happens when you allow time for proper, in-depth, face-to-face conversation, we found that we had more common ground than we suspected. Well, I have a feeling that Alistair did suspect it, because cider is his business after all. While we didn’t agree on everything, we did speak constructively about the future of cider and perry, and discussed his use of specific terminology in depth.

After the heated part of the interview, we also took the chance to taste through a few of the ciders he distributes, all of which were stunning. (Please note, this episode was recorded in a moderately busy bar, so there is a little background noise, but nothing hopefully too distracting.)

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

In hindsight, it’s easy to say that when writer David Jesudason pitched me a story on the history and significance of Desi Pubs, I bit his hand off. But reality is never that simple. While it’s true that I was desperate to commission stories by writers from non-white backgrounds, and publish stories that explored previously uncovered elements of British beer culture, I am always wary before I commit to an idea.

The question I ask myself before I commission a story, whether I like it or not, is “would our readers enjoy this.” Although I get the final say over what we eventually publish on Pellicle it’s not really about what I like, it’s about meeting the expectations of the people who come to the site every week to read about beer, pubs, or whatever we happen to be talking about at the time.

Thankfully, I loved David’s pitch, and we eventually published his first story on Desi Pubs on the 2nd of June, 2021. It was a hit, and in addition to opening up our readers to this vastly undercovered area of British pub culture, it sent David down a rabbit hole, as he delved ever deeper into researching and covering this topic.

The eventual result of this would lead to the publication of his first book Desi Pubs, in 2023. On the book’s surface it’s a guidebook to British-Asian pub culture and some of the amazing Desi Pubs that can be found in certain parts of the UK. It’s fantastic, and if you haven’t already I urge you to buy a copy for yourself.

A few months after the publication of his book, I had the chance to invite David up to Manchester, to join me in conversation for a live podcast, recorded at IndyManBeerCon (or, if you prefer, the Independent Manchester Beer Convention.) We chatted about Desi Pubs, the book itself, about bigger subjects such as the colour bar, and on David’s thoughts and approach to writing about beer and pubs in general.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.