When Madonna performed “Like A Virgin'' at the first MTV Video Music Awards in 1984, she scandalized the audience and her own team. But she also stole the show, cementing MTV’s place in cultural history. In this episode, Susie and Jess look back at Madonna’s early years in New York, the events that led her to that stage and how she became one of pop's most enduring icons.

GUESTS:

• Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:

• Madonna: Our 1985 Cover Story (Spin)
• Madonna’s Celebration Tour Proves She Won’t Quit (NY Times)
• Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1984, a relatively unknown 26-year old Madonna appeared at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Dressed like a rock and roll bride, Madonna sang “Like a Virgin.” The performance was considered so risque, so scandalous that many – including her own manager – predicted it would end her career. But far from stopping her, that moment changed Madonna’s life, transforming her from rising star to pop idol. In this week’s episode, Susie and Jess talk about that iconic performance, the rise of MTV and how together MTV and Madonna were a force that defined 80s pop culture.

GUESTS:

• Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:

• 60 Times Madonna Changed Our Culture (NY Times)
• Inside Madonna's Legendary Performance at the First VMAs (Rolling Stone)
• Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Girl dinner. Hot girl walks. Weird girls. Clean girls. Rat girls. Snail girls. Everywhere we look, it seems, a certain kind of girliness is being celebrated – from Beyonce to Barbie to Taylor Swift to TikTok. But what really is girl culture? Jess and Susie revisit a seminal photography book from the early 2000s, Lauren Greenfield’s “Girl Culture,” to ask: What does it mean when girlhood is being glorified but individual girls are more miserable than ever?

FOR MORE:

• The joy of communal girlhood; the agony of teen girls (by Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2024)
• Being 13 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2023)
• This Is 18 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2018)
• Girl Culture, by Lauren Greenfield (TIME, 2002)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.