When Madonna performed “Like A Virgin'' at the first MTV Video Music Awards in 1984, she scandalized the audience and her own team. But she also stole the show, cementing MTV’s place in cultural history. In this episode, Susie and Jess look back at Madonna’s early years in New York, the events that led her to that stage and how she became one of pop's most enduring icons.

GUESTS:

• Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:

• Madonna: Our 1985 Cover Story (Spin)
• Madonna’s Celebration Tour Proves She Won’t Quit (NY Times)
• Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

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In 1984, a relatively unknown 26-year old Madonna appeared at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Dressed like a rock and roll bride, Madonna sang “Like a Virgin.” The performance was considered so risque, so scandalous that many – including her own manager – predicted it would end her career. But far from stopping her, that moment changed Madonna’s life, transforming her from rising star to pop idol. In this week’s episode, Susie and Jess talk about that iconic performance, the rise of MTV and how together MTV and Madonna were a force that defined 80s pop culture.

GUESTS:

• Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:

• 60 Times Madonna Changed Our Culture (NY Times)
• Inside Madonna's Legendary Performance at the First VMAs (Rolling Stone)
• Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

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Girl dinner. Hot girl walks. Weird girls. Clean girls. Rat girls. Snail girls. Everywhere we look, it seems, a certain kind of girliness is being celebrated – from Beyonce to Barbie to Taylor Swift to TikTok. But what really is girl culture? Jess and Susie revisit a seminal photography book from the early 2000s, Lauren Greenfield’s “Girl Culture,” to ask: What does it mean when girlhood is being glorified but individual girls are more miserable than ever?

FOR MORE:

• The joy of communal girlhood; the agony of teen girls (by Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2024)
• Being 13 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2023)
• This Is 18 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2018)
• Girl Culture, by Lauren Greenfield (TIME, 2002)

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Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them.

FOR MORE:

• The New Menendez Defenders (The New York Times)
• Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (The New York Times)
• New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time)

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Hanging out with Monica Lewinsky for her first profile in a decade. Booking Jessica Simpson for a weight loss reveal that never happened. Searching for Casey Anthony…. and not finding her. Wondering how many members of a polycule is too many to put on an expense report (!). In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit some of their most memorable, and sometimes cringey, adventures in journalism.

FOR MORE:

• Polyamory: The Next Sexual Revolution? (By Jessica Bennett, Newsweek, 2010)
• Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms (By Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2015)
• Jessica Simpson Reveals Post-Baby Body on Katie Couric’s New Show (People, 2012)

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She made history as the first Black Miss America, then dramatically lost her crown in a scandal that would see her branded as "the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” But Vanessa Williams did not just go away quietly, she fought back — going head to head with Penthouse, the magazine that published her photos, and the man who tricked her into taking them. In this episode, Jess and Susie chart the aftermath of that sordid episode, as well as Vanessa’s staggering comeback. Plus, Jess talks about the time she went to Miss America just a few years ago, reporting from inside the pageant, where a pageant “civil war” was brewing.

FOR MORE:

• Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger
• Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess)
• Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir

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You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America.

FOR MORE:

• Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger
• Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess)
• Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir

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In 1991, America’s sweetheart Sally Field starred in a movie about an American woman’s desperate escape from her abusive Iranian husband. For Susie, and a generation of other Iranian-American kids, this was the only representation they saw of themselves in pop culture – and it was not great. It was essentially a horror film – and the horror was Iran. In this episode, best-selling author (and fellow Iranian-American) Porochista Khakpour joins Susie to talk about what it was like growing up in the shadow of ‘Not Without My Daughter’ and its comically dark view of their homeland.

GUESTS:

• Porochista Khakpour, best-selling author

FOR MORE:

• The Not Without My Daughter Problem: How a Sally Field Movie Became an Iranian-American Headache (New York Magazine)
• Iranians Moving Past Negative Depictions In Pop Culture (by Porochista Khakpour, LA Times)
• Order Porochista’s book Tehrangeles

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