Today we revisit an interview with Tim Gallagher, a leading voice in Medicaid transformation and value-based care. With Medicaid policy currently dominating headlines, it is important to hear from someone with firsthand experience as both a policy expert and a parent navigating the system. Tim offers sharp insight into how managed Medicaid can drive equity, improve outcomes, and create sustainable partnerships.

In this episode of the Move to Value Podcast, we take a deep dive into one of the most impactful updates in healthcare risk adjustment: the transition from CMS-HCC Version 24 to Version 28. Our guest, TaSonya Hughes, CHESS Health Solutions’ Manager of Coding and Documentation Education, explains what the shift means for providers, coding teams, and care managers—and why now is the critical time to prepare.

CMS-HCC Version 28 introduces new disease classification categories, retires thousands of existing diagnosis codes, and emphasizes greater specificity in clinical documentation. TaSonya walks us through how these changes affect Medicare risk adjustment, the financial sustainability of value-based care, and ultimately, the ability to deliver accurate, coordinated care for patients with complex chronic conditions.

In this episode of The Move to Value Podcast, guests Jennifer Houlihan and Jennifer Gasperini join us for a deep and wide-ranging conversation on the evolving landscape of value-based care. We explore North Carolina’s leadership in Medicaid transformation, the critical role of provider voice, and the infrastructure needed to support long-term success.

From navigating administrative burdens to anticipating federal policy shifts, we also discuss how health systems can stay nimble, build smarter data strategies, and engage patients in more meaningful ways. Whether you're a provider, policymaker, or system leader, this episode offers timely insight into where healthcare is headed—and what it will take to get there.

CMS Changes and the Future of Value-Based Care

Jennifer Houlihan and Jennifer Gasperini of Advocate Health discuss the impact of new CMS and CMMI leadership, current challenges in value-based care, and the future of ACOs, ECQMs, and Medicare Advantage. A timely conversation for anyone navigating the evolving policy landscape.

Welcome to the Move to Value Podcast, powered by CHESS Health Solutions.

In this episode, we’re joined by Jennifer Houlihan, Vice President, and Jennifer Gasparini, Director of Policy, from Advocate Health’s Population Health Team. Together, we unpack the implications of the recent administration change, explore what new leadership at CMS could mean for value-based care, and hear their perspectives on the legislative priorities they hope to see take shape.

Thomas Royal

Jennifer Houlihan, Jennifer Gasparini, welcome to the move to Value podcast.

Jennifer Gasperini

Thanks for having us.

Jennifer Houlihan

Happy to be here.

Thomas Royal

So you both just attended the NAACOS conference?

Can you tell us what are some of the hot topics that folks were talking about?

Jennifer Gasperini

I can get us started.

I think it's always great to see colleagues at the NAACOs conference and was also great to see Kim Brandt, who is the deputy administrator and COO at CMS, come and share some of Doctor Oz's priorities. For CMS and I think a lot of those priorities align really well with value based care. So they they really spoke a lot about tackling fraud and abuse. And as you know, ACOs are really the early identifiers of fraud.

And so really was pleased to see them talking about that and also using technology and better data really for beneficiaries and providers to advance care. And I think ACOs obviously are very focused on that goal as well.

Jennifer, do you have anything else to add there?

Jennifer Houlihan

Yeah. There, in addition, there were some really good sessions on the new team model, the transferring Episode Accountability model as well as guide and a lot of thoughtful conversation around how to integrate these models into the ACO and a clearer path for outcomes there. So I think there was a great discussion and got to give kudos to Jennifer. She was part of a really well attended and fantastic panel on how ACOs are adapting ECQMs and MIPCQMs and some of the kind of demands and multiple issues that are impacting ACOs on how to do all payer adjustments leveraging some of these requirements. So a lot of really timely topics and I think then the kind of final was Specialty Care integration, I think continued to be a recurring topic that we need to think more deeply about that and and how those get nested within cost, so hopefully we'll see more about that in the future.

Thomas Royal

So there is new leadership in place at HHS, CMS and CMMI.

What does NAACOS think this might signal for the future of value-based care?

Jennifer Houlihan

Sure, I I can. I can jump in on that one first, so I think you know, looking at Abe Sutton, you know, as as Jennifer mentioned, Kim Brandt was there from CMS. But we've also seen with Abe Sutton's appointment, who's been a strong supporter of value-based care. I think the mood was mostly positive, that there has been sort of a lot of statements, whether it's in some of the confirmation hearings, or direct statements that value-based care and the need to achieve savings is is one of the priorities. I think there's gonna be some different thinking about more aggressive requirements for more savings and as as as we've seen already, some of the model review that's already taking place. The ability to kind of end models early if they're not achieving the outcomes and the savings. So I think the mood in...

In this episode, Kari Curry, Medicaid Care Coordination Hub Supervisor at CHESS Health Solutions, shares how CHESS delivers high-touch, high-impact care management within a Medicaid Clinically Integrated Network (CIN).

Kari walks us through a patient journey that highlights how CHESS uses real-time data from NCHIE, comprehensive social determinants of health (SDOH) screening, and structured care planning to reduce ED utilization and improve health equity. She also covers CHESS’s success with AMH Tier 3 audit readiness and payer collaboration—proving that value-based care in the Medicaid space is not only possible, but measurable.

In today’s episode we continue our conversation with @American_Heart Senior Advocacy Advisor of Health System Transformation Melanie Phelps, who was integral in the recently published study on the benefit of Accountable Care Organizations. The findings support that managed care provided by ACOs not only improves outcomes for the medically complex patient, but also benefits every patient, family caregiver, provider, and healthcare team member. www.heart.org/bettercare

Yates Lennon

Melanie Phelps, welcome back to the move to Value podcast. So let's try to pick up where we where we finished last time. Melanie and I wanted to go back to really to sort of the heart of your research in the medically complex patient. So we know these folks require hard higher touch and really need coordinated, managed coordinated care. And, wanted to talk about why it's crucial for the American Heart Association to understand and advocate for better models of care for this patient population. And then we'll after that, we'll follow up on sort of how we can work together to do that.

Melanie Phelps

Yeah. So medically complex patients are of course more complex and more costly.

They require a lot more services and the burden of navigating a fragmented fee for service system adds to their already very stressful lives and the chances of things falling through the cracks or delayed care is pretty high in a payer fee for service system, the ACO provides those extra layers of support, communication and enhanced access that really do lead to better outcomes, reduce stress on the patient and their caregivers, which is pretty important. We also believe they are more likely to get the most up to date care under these arrangements because the incentive to do better is there and that is not there in the case of fee for service. So, we all know that there is a pretty significant lag between new innovations and evidence-based solutions and adoption or implementation in reality, and we see ACOs as a vehicle for expediting adoption of those. The other piece on medically complex patients, why we wanted to focus on those is when talking to other patient and consumer advocacy organizations, which is a key target audience of this of this study, there was a lot of apathy and even skepticism about ACOs, OK. They're not involved in the advocacy. They're not steeped in the details and they are very suspicious of ACO’s of value based care. They're thinking there's a lot of stinting going on. They think that they're being, you know, medically complex patients are being denied care and being kicked out of ACO’s. And that certainly was not my experience when I worked with the ACO’s in North Carolina. So, one of the reasons we focused on medically complex patients was to be able to say, OK, you know, are they getting the care that they need? What do they have to say about it? And that's why. I mean these are the people that really need the extra care and support and the results really showed that they were getting much better care and support, which should be important to everybody.

Yates Lennon

Yes, absolutely. That's that's interesting. I never would have. I guess I never would have thought about that kind of skepticism from consumer advocacy groups around value based care, and certainly my experience has been the exact opposite is the ACO model is a ideal model to have those patients in because you have the sustainable, a sustainable path to provide these wrap around services to both, both the provider and the patient and their families. I can think of multiple instances where these like in our NextGen days and our ACO REACH nursing facility waiver as an...

Today we hear from Melanie Phelps, Senior Advocacy Advisor of Health System Transformation for the American Heart Association, who shares with CHESS President, Dr. Yates Lennon, the motivation and detailed findings of a new study conducted by the AHA which found that ACOs provide better care and outcomes for patients and a better practice experience for members of the health care team than traditional fee for service. www.heart.org/bettercare

Yates Lennon

Melanie Phelps, welcome to the move to Value podcast.

Glad to have you with us today.

Melanie Phelps

Glad to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Yates Lennon

Sure, of course.

So Melanie, recently the American Heart Association, released a study called Understanding Patient Family Caregiver and Health Care team member ACO experiences. Can you talk to us a little bit about what motivated the American Heart Association to conduct this research?

Melanie Phelps

Happy to. So the idea for the study arose out of a desire to be able to talk about ACOs in a more relatable manner to people who are not steeped in the technical jargon around ACO and value based care generally.

We thought the best way to do this was to hear directly from patients, their family, caregivers and healthcare team members who receive or who provide care through ACOs.

So from those who are on the ground receiving and providing care, and our hope is to use this information to better explain the benefits of ACOs in a way that's more understandable to more people.

Yates Lennon

Yes, certainly that, that sounds good.

I know. ACO is an acronym that I think everyone of our listeners would be familiar with but when you get outside of the healthcare team member and even within in some settings, it's something people don't understand. Well, the study compares patient experiences in ACOs to the more traditional fee for service models.

What were some of the key differences that stood out in terms of patient's experience first?

Melanie Phelps

Well, the results showed that.

The care that's provided through these ACO models is just better in terms of quality and access, because there's a usual source of care through a primary care provider, whether that's a MD or an advanced practice provider.

And there's usually a dedicated care manager as well as a team of people to ensure that all their needs, physical, mental, emotional and health related social needs are addressed.

So essentially their experience is that they receive better, more timely and coordinated care with added supports that they wouldn't get in a pure fee for service arrangement.

And I heard more than a few times that it's better than what we had before.

And I also heard that my friends don't get the same level of care, and even some of the healthcare team members who lamented the fact that they can't provide this level of care to all their patients, especially those who are not assigned to an ACO, so.

Yates Lennon

Yeah. And I can echo that experience.

I think some of our care team providers share with us stories of patients they interact with and we certainly hear that same story and even I have family in a different part of the state than the triad. And I can say from personal experience, I wish they were in these models.

The American Heart Association conducted interviews like you said, just talked about among patients, caregivers and these healthcare team members.

What were the what were their common themes?

You just mentioned some common themes among patients, but if you expand that, what were some of the key findings or common themes across all three of those groups, patient, caregiver, and healthcare team...

Today we continue our ACO REACH conversation with Kim Williams, who discusses how this model facilitates enhanced care for the patient. She also shares insights on measuring success, engaging providers, and the broader impact of ACO REACH on healthcare equity and value-based care

Thomas Royal

Kim Williams, welcome back. Thanks for sticking around so we could continue our conversation here today.

Kim Williams

Thank you, Thomas.

I'm happy to be back and ready to continue our conversation.

Thomas Royal

So last time you know, we discussed a lot of the nuts and bolts of ACO reach.

You know what it is, how it helps us, the various entities that are involved.

One of the things that I want to talk about a little bit is the is the patient.

So we, you know, previously you mentioned a HealthEquity plans sdoh screenings.

What beyond that and including that specific advantages, does ACO reach offer to the patient compared to traditional fee for service models?

Kim Williams

Yes. So, in ACO reach the advantages for patients are actually quite substantial.

Especially in care delivery through waivers or what they call benefit enhancements and incentives. So, for example, with the public health emergency coming to an end, a lot of the telehealth flexibilities that existed during the pandemic are no longer an option after March of this year. So if you were if you are an ACO reach, this is still an option through the telehealth waiver, which removes geographic restrictions and allow patients to get care from their provider regardless of where they are. So you know they can be in their living room doing a check in visit. It is so beneficial for rural communities and patients with mobility issues. I've had site visits with providers that really stress the importance of telehealth because they are in a more rural setting where it's not, you know, good for the patient with mobility issues to go back and forth to the offices. So I think that's definitely a huge plus for those types of population. There is also a financial benefit play that patients can take advantage of, and that's through the cost sharing for Part B services. Now this one allows reach ACOs to reduce or eliminate cost sharing for Part B services and remove financial barriers for things like a primary care visit or your chronic care management, even preventative services. So for instance, CHESS has it set up right now to where we can waive chronic care management co-pays. And so the hope is that. If we're able to waive those co-pays, patients will be more willing to seek intervention. And really participate in chronic care management programs when you know they're not too worried about those co-pays. Chronic care management is just super important in this model, alongside of transition of care management because it focus on preventions. And so I think again this is a win win situation for both providers and patients and also ACOs alike.

Thomas Royal

Well, that's fascinating.

I so I I know that when we talk about there's options of care and financial efficiency for the patient, how does the program ensure patient receives more coordinated and personalized care?

Kim Williams

Yes, so care coordination plays a huge role in ACO reach. And you heard me mention earlier that implementing the HealthEquity plan requires coordination from everyone. But I want to specifically highlight the great work that care coordination teams put into personalizing the care for our traditional Medicare patients in this population, right? So first the the outreach to the patients are beyond the normal amounts and I'm I'm using our HealthEquity plan as an example here because our care management teams spend more time on the phone with patients, really to better understand why. Why are they not getting their cancer screenings, for example? And...