Episodes

  • 191. Amy Edmondson - Failure Factors | Part 1

    191. Amy Edmondson - Failure Factors | Part 1
    Jul 30 2024
    “Some failures are simply the undesired result of a thoughtful experiment in new territory, and those are the ones we must learn to love.” Chapters: 00:00 Introduction and Background06:29 The Influence of Buckminster Fuller13:23 Psychological Safety and Speaking Up About Error Episode Summary: Dr. Amy Edmondson, the world's leading authority in psychological safety, discusses her background and the science of failing well. She shares her journey from growing up in New York City to becoming a professor at Harvard Business School. She explains how her mentor, Buckminster Fuller, influenced her curiosity and joy for learning. Dr. Edmondson also delves into the concept of psychological safety and its impact on team learning and innovation. She distinguishes between mistakes and failures and introduces the three failure archetypes: intelligent failures, basic failures, and complex failures. Finally, she explores the relationship between uncertainty and preventability in the context of failure. In this conversation, Amy Edmondson and Shannon Cassidy discuss the importance of failing well and how to respond to failure. They explore the concept of psychological safety and its role in creating a culture that embraces failure as a learning opportunity. They also discuss the criteria for intelligent failure and share stories of successful individuals who have learned from their failures. The conversation covers topics such as self-awareness, the power of questions, the role of apology in healing relationships, and how to thrive as fallible human beings. R.O.G. Takeaway Tips: The influence of mentorship and curiosity in fostering a love for learningThe concept of psychological safety and its impact on team learning and innovationThe distinction between mistakes and failures and the three failure archetype​​Be curious, like Buckminster Fuller What are you perplexed about? Be willing to speak up about mistakesAsk great questions, like How can we practice differently? How will I avoid unintelligent failure using the four criteria for failing well:Is this new territory?Is this an opportunity/ pursuit of a goal?Is it informed by prior knowledge?Is it as small as possible? How can I encourage our team to continuously learn and grow? Guest Bio: Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, a chair established to support the study of human interactions that lead to the creation of successful enterprises that contribute to the betterment of society. She lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and is the author of Right Kind of Wrong. After decades of award-winning research, Amy Edmondson is here to upend our understanding of failure and make it work for us. In Right Kind of Wrong, Edmondson provides the framework to think, discuss, and practice failure wisely. Outlining the three archetypes of failure—basic, complex, and intelligent—Amy showcases how to minimize unproductive failure while maximizing what we gain from flubs of all stripes. She illustrates how we and our organizations can embrace our human fallibility, learn exactly when failure is our friend, and prevent most of it when it is not. This is the key to pursuing smart risks and preventing avoidable harm. With vivid, real-life stories from business, pop culture, history, and more, Edmondson gives us specifically tailored practices, skills, and mindsets to help us replace shame and blame with curiosity, vulnerability, and personal growth. You’ll never look at failure the same way again. Resources: Amy Edmondson Harvard Professor The Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well by Amy Edmondson The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson Amy Edmondson Wikipedia Where to find R.O.G. Podcast: R.O.G on YouTube R.O.G on Apple Podcasts R.O.G on Spotify How diverse is your network? N.D.I. Network Diversity Index What is your Generosity Style? Generosity Quiz Credits: Amy Edmondson, Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc. Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 192, with special guest Amy Edmondson Part 2.
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    28 mins
  • 190. The 5° Principle | Demonstrate Emotional Intelligence | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip

    190. The 5° Principle | Demonstrate Emotional Intelligence | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip
    Jul 23 2024
    In this episode, Shannon Cassidy discusses the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership. She explains the four main components of emotional intelligence: self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. Cassidy emphasizes the need for leaders to be self-reflective, practice emotional self-control, read the room, and invest in relationships. She encourages listeners to pay attention to their emotions, be self-aware, and intentionally invest in key relationships. Chapters: 00:00 Chapter 1: Demonstrate Emotional Intelligence01:21 Chapter 2: Self-Awareness: Knowing When We're at Our Best and Worst02:46 Chapter 4: Social Awareness: Reading the Room03:15 Chapter 5: Relationship Management: Investing in Relationships Shannon Cassidy is Founder and CEO of Bridge Between, Inc. a boutique leadership development firm specializing in generous leadership, behavioral change, executive presence, effective communication, collaborative teamwork, and conflict resolution. She provides Executive Coaching, Facilitation (team sessions, mentoring programs, leadership retreats, executive workshops, mediation services) and Keynote Speaking (conferences, annual events, ceremonies) all custom designed. This is her podcast, R.O.G. Return on Generosity focusing on how to be a corporate generous leader by sharing time, talent and gratitude. Shannon combines her keen ability to get to the heart of every matter with a proven track record as a corporate leader. Before founding Bridge Between, Inc. she spent years building profitable businesses and driving innovation and leadership initiatives. This real-world experience formed the bedrock of her success. She equips her clients with the strategies, tools, and inspiration to thrive during organizational change and to lead with vision, purpose, and generosity. Shannon has authored several articles and books including Discover Your Inner Strength (2009), The Five Degree Principle: How Small Changes Lead to Big Results (2013), V.I.B.E. A Self-Discovery Journey to Authentic Leadership (2014) and Grounded in Gratitude a one-line-a –day, five-year gratitude journal (2015-2023). Her current efforts focus on the benefits of Generosity at Work. R.O.G. Takeaway Tips: Emotional intelligence is a critical component of being a generous leader.The four main components of emotional intelligence are self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management.Leaders should practice self-reflection, emotional self-control, and reading the room.Investing in key relationships is essential for generous leadership. Resources: YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@ShannonCassidybb Bridge Between, Inc. https://bridgebetween.comThe Five Degree Principle by Shannon CassidyV.I.B.E. by Shannon Cassidy R.O.G. on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/r-o-g-return-on-generosity/id1508207492 R.O.G. on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1L9UnWdoiAX8MtRKXjdPY3 Video of this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/PNfiBD-2PLI Free N.D.I. Network Diversity Index https://bridgebetween.com/network-diversity-index/ Free Generosity Quiz https://bridgebetween.com/generosity-quiz/ Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 191, with special guest Amy Edmondson Part 1. Credits: Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.
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    6 mins
  • 189. Dr. Tonya Cornelius - Embracing Awe and Wonder for More Joy and Fulfillment

    189. Dr. Tonya Cornelius - Embracing Awe and Wonder for More Joy and Fulfillment
    Jul 16 2024
    Dr. Tonya Cornelius, Senior Vice President, Human Resources, The Walt Disney Company where she serves as an integral member of the enterprise Human Resources senior leadership team. Dr. Cornileus is responsible for learning and leadership development, talent and succession management, performance management, and career development. Dr. Cornileus joined The Walt Disney Company in 2009, serving for nearly 13 years at ESPN prior to moving into her current role. At ESPN, she led learning, talent management, organization development, diversity, equity and inclusion, and wellness. Prior to joining The Walt Disney Company, Dr. Cornileus served as director, executive development & organizational effectiveness for Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. from 2004 to 2009 and vice president, training & organizational development for Aegis Communications Group, Inc. from 1998 to 2004. She began her career as an educator. Dr. Cornileus is involved with several professional and civic organizations. She serves on the Advisory Board for Advanced Leadership Laboratory, Women in Sports and Events (WISE) National Board of Directors, the boards for the University of Florida Foundation and Empower Her Network. Dr. Cornileus is a past board member and officer for the University of Georgia College of Education Board of Visitors, for the Urban League of Greater Hartford, and the T. Howard Foundation. Dr. Cornileus has been recognized by various industry and professional organizations, including being selected to the distinguished list of Wonder Women by Multichannel News, CableFax’s Most Powerful Women Mentor of the Year and Most Influential Minorities in Cable, and Diversity Journal’s Women Worth Watching. She has also been profiled in the Chief Talent Development Officer Magazine, Savoy Magazine’s list of Most Influential Women in Corporate America, and Pivot Magazine’s Pivotal Women. Dr. Cornileus was honored with a Career Achievement Award by the New England Chapter of Women in Cable and Telecommunications and inducted into the University of Florida College of Journalism and Communications Hall of Fame. Dr. Cornileus’ philanthropic endeavors focus primarily on promoting access to education. In 2022, she established the Harris Family Opportunity Scholarship at the University of Georgia and in 2019, she established the Tonya Harris Cornileus CJC Diversity in Communications Endowed Scholarship Fund at the University of Florida. She is a major donor to the Criterion’s Club Gwendolyn Pinkney Harris Scholarship in honor of her deceased mother. Dr. Cornileus mentors college students through the University of Georgia’s alumni mentor program and young professionals across various companies and industries. She has mentored high school students through the Hartford Consortium for Higher Education’s New Beginnings program, and actively supports several other community service organizations. Dr. Cornileus is a lifelong learner. She earned her Ph.D. and M.Ed. in Human Resources and Organizational Development from the University of Georgia and her bachelor’s degree in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Florida. Dr. Cornileus received the Senior Certified Professional designation by the Society for Human Resource Management (SHRM-SCP) and the Professional Coaching certification by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC CPC). She is passionate about helping individuals and teams realize their full potential and regularly spends her time keynote speaking, writing, and reading on topics of personal and professional development. Quotes: “Avoid regret. Regret is perhaps one of the worst things you could do to avoid getting near the end or at any point of your life and living such a regretful experience is to go ahead and believe in yourself.” “I knew that I wanted to be a part of helping people realize their goals and dreams and believe in themselves.” “Believing in yourself and just taking one step forward toward it. And I believe the way starts to open up for us.” “Do it scared. Don't let fear be the reason you don't do something. Just do it scared.” Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Dr. Tonya Cornelius01:57 Tonya's Background and Passion for Helping Others10:15 The Importance of Belief in Oneself and Taking Leaps of Faith23:50 Finding Focus and Inspiration with a Word of the Year30:37 Embracing Awe and Wonder for More Joy and Fulfillment40:59 Takeaway Tips and Closing Remarks R.O.G. Takeaway Tips: Self-reflection and answering perennial questions about identity, values, and contribution are essential for personal growth. Who am I really? What do I value? What gifts and talents do I have? How do I want to contribute? Belief in oneself and taking leaps of faith are crucial for realizing one's full potential.Generosity and mentorship play a significant role in helping others reach their goals and dreams.Having a word of the year can provide focus and ...
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    28 mins
  • 188. The 5° Principle | Share Your Brilliance | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip

    188. The 5° Principle | Share Your Brilliance | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip
    Jul 9 2024

    “When you know better, you do better.” - Dr. Maya Angelou

    “Be who you are and be that well.” - St. Francis de Sales

    This week we are looking at Chapter 14, Share Your Brilliance.

    Shannon Cassidy is Founder and CEO of Bridge Between, Inc. a boutique leadership development firm specializing in generous leadership, behavioral change, executive presence, effective communication, collaborative teamwork, and conflict resolution. She provides Executive Coaching, Facilitation (team sessions, mentoring programs, leadership retreats, executive workshops, mediation services) and Keynote Speaking (conferences, annual events, ceremonies) all custom designed. This is her podcast, R.O.G. Return on Generosity focusing on how to be a corporate generous leader by sharing time, talent and gratitude.

    Shannon combines her keen ability to get to the heart of every matter with a proven track record as a corporate leader. Before founding Bridge Between, Inc. she spent years building profitable businesses and driving innovation and leadership initiatives. This real-world experience formed the bedrock of her success. She equips her clients with the strategies, tools, and inspiration to thrive during organizational change and to lead with vision, purpose, and generosity.

    Shannon has authored several articles and books including Discover Your Inner Strength (2009), The Five Degree Principle: How Small Changes Lead to Big Results (2013), V.I.B.E. A Self-Discovery Journey to Authentic Leadership (2014) and Grounded in Gratitude a one-line-a –day, five-year gratitude journal (2015-2023). Her current efforts focus on the benefits of Generosity at Work.

    Resources:

    • YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@ShannonCassidybb
    • Bridge Between, Inc. https://bridgebetween.com
    • The Five Degree Principle by Shannon Cassidy
    • V.I.B.E. by Shannon Cassidy
    • R.O.G. on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/r-o-g-return-on-generosity/id1508207492
    • R.O.G. on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1L9UnWdoiAX8MtRKXjdPY3
    • Video of this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/PNfiBD-2PLI
    • Free N.D.I. Network Diversity Index https://bridgebetween.com/network-diversity-index/
    • Free Generosity Quiz https://bridgebetween.com/generosity-quiz/

    Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 189, with special guest Dr. Tonya Cornelius.

    Credits: Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.
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    5 mins
  • 187. George Galaz - Building Trust: The Foundation for Loyalty and Commitment

    187. George Galaz - Building Trust: The Foundation for Loyalty and Commitment
    Jul 2 2024

    “The benefit is the reward at a personal level is the reward that you see when you see others grow and succeed. Whenever I, whenever you see somebody stuck in, in, in their current situation, um, the generous thing to do is to reach out and help them find or define, um, the path that they need to follow in order to reach the next level.”

    George Galaz is a Canadian citizen who holds a degree from the Professional Institute of Computer Science (1989). In 2005, he studied economics, marketing, financial analysis, international business, data modeling, business leadership, and corporate governance —among other subjects.

    He was also an instructor of software and programming languages at Universidad de Chile's Faculty of Continuing Education.

    Since 2019, George is responsible for the Network Control business for HITACHI Energy, a Japan-based corporation committed to developing leading edge technologies to advance a sustainable energy future for all.

    George tries to remain active by playing tennis and riding his road bicycle. He plays an instrument and enjoys relaxing on the beach reading a good business book. He is committed to giving back to society, and uses every opportunity he has to coach individuals on finding a successful career path.

    R.O.G. Takeaway Tips:

    • Look for opportunities to help others.
    • Generosity is compassion, R.O.C., Return on Compassion
    • Look for the best in others and for others.
    • Build a foundation of trust.
    • Take the blame
    • Defend those who are not in the room.
    • Look for generous signals.
    • Celebrating compassion and generosity.
    • Live this formula: Trust leads to loyalty; Loyalty leads to commitment; Commitment leads to performance.
    • Be grateful for strengths and how to partner with team members.
    • Establish boundaries, rules and expectations.
    • Interviews are a two way conversation.
    • Never forget where we come from.

    Resources:

    • Hitachi Energy

    Where to find R.O.G. Podcast:

    R.O.G on YouTube

    R.O.G on Apple Podcasts

    R.O.G on Spotify

    How diverse is your network? N.D.I. Network Diversity Index

    What is your Generosity Style? Generosity Quiz

    Credits:

    George Galaz, Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.

    Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 188, with Shannon Cassidy for a Generous Leadership Coaching Tip.

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    34 mins
  • 186. The 5° Principle | Take Control of Yourself | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip

    186. The 5° Principle | Take Control of Yourself | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip
    Jun 25 2024
    “Worthiness doesn’t have prerequisites.” - Brené Brown In this episode, Shannon Cassidy discusses the concept of taking control of oneself. She uses the analogy of concentric circles to explain the areas of control, influence, and no control in our lives. The outermost circle represents things we have no control over, such as traffic or the weather. The next circle represents our area of influence, where we have the power to impact others. The innermost circle represents our area of total control, where we have control over ourselves. Shannon emphasizes the importance of focusing on what we can control and prioritizing our time and energy accordingly. Shannon Cassidy is Founder and CEO of Bridge Between, Inc. a boutique leadership development firm specializing in generous leadership, behavioral change, executive presence, effective communication, collaborative teamwork, and conflict resolution. She provides Executive Coaching, Facilitation (team sessions, mentoring programs, leadership retreats, executive workshops, mediation services) and Keynote Speaking (conferences, annual events, ceremonies) all custom designed. This is her podcast, R.O.G. Return on Generosity focusing on how to be a corporate generous leader by sharing time, talent and gratitude. Shannon combines her keen ability to get to the heart of every matter with a proven track record as a corporate leader. Before founding Bridge Between, Inc. she spent years building profitable businesses and driving innovation and leadership initiatives. This real-world experience formed the bedrock of her success. She equips her clients with the strategies, tools, and inspiration to thrive during organizational change and to lead with vision, purpose, and generosity. Shannon has authored several articles and books including Discover Your Inner Strength (2009), The Five Degree Principle: How Small Changes Lead to Big Results (2013), V.I.B.E. A Self-Discovery Journey to Authentic Leadership (2014) and Grounded in Gratitude a one-line-a –day, five-year gratitude journal (2015-2023). Her current efforts focus on the benefits of Generosity at Work. R.O.G. Takeaway Tips: Identify the things you have no control over and accept them as they are.Recognize the people and things you have influence over and consider how your actions impact them. Take that responsibility seriously.Focus on what you can control about yourself, such as your attitude, beliefs, choices, and habits.Prioritize your time and energy on the things within your control for the best return on investment.What’s one thing in your area of control you will prioritize this week? Resources: YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@ShannonCassidybb Bridge Between, Inc. https://bridgebetween.comThe Five Degree Principle by Shannon CassidyV.I.B.E. by Shannon Cassidy R.O.G. on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/r-o-g-return-on-generosity/id1508207492 R.O.G. on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1L9UnWdoiAX8MtRKXjdPY3 Video of this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/PNfiBD-2PLI Free N.D.I. Network Diversity Index https://bridgebetween.com/network-diversity-index/ Free Generosity Quiz https://bridgebetween.com/generosity-quiz/ Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 187, with special guest George Galaz. Credits: Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.
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    6 mins
  • 185. Frank Gregory - Social Listening

    185. Frank Gregory - Social Listening
    Jun 18 2024

    “Qualitative research is understanding the why behind different emotions and different interests. …Quantitative is going to give you the actual sizing of how large of a conversation is. What I love about Social Intelligence and, specifically the social listening piece, is that balance of qual and quant.”

    Frank Gregory, Social Intelligence professional at Nestle USA. After starting his career in Marketing Strategy & Research, Frank has specialized in Social Listening and related social research methodologies for the past 11 years, becoming a recognized leader in the emerging Social Intelligence space. Due to his accomplishments building out these capabilities for brands such as Audi, Hilton, and now Nestle USA, as well as founding the Social Intelligence Practices at agencies such as MediaCom and consultancies such as NorthStar Solutions Group, Frank has recently been twice recognized by the Social Intelligence Lab (the leading global trade organization in the space) as a Global Social Intelligence Insider 50 award winner, in both 2022 and 2024.

    In this episode, Frank Gregory, a Social Intelligence professional, shares his journey and expertise in social listening and social intelligence. He explains the importance of social intelligence for brands and how it encompasses social listening, audience segmentation, community analysis, and content performance analytics. Frank emphasizes the balance between qualitative and quantitative research in social intelligence and the need to understand the target audience. He also discusses the role of generosity in his work, including the gift of time and the importance of saying yes to helping others. Frank highlights the return on generosity, which can lead to unexpected opportunities and relationships.

    Chapters:

    • 00:00 Introduction to Frank Gregory and Social Intelligence
    • 03:43 Frank's Journey into Social Listening
    • 07:07 Defining Social Intelligence and Its Importance
    • 14:11 Target Audience in Social Media vs. Target Market
    • 22:14 Ethnographic Research and Foresight Ecosystems
    • 28:07 Addressing Privacy Concerns in Social Listening
    • 32:45 Generosity at Work and the Return on Generosity

    R.O.G. Takeaway Tips:

    • Do your research.
    • Take a shot on someone.
    • Know your audience.
    • Balance. (i.e. qualitative and quantitative research)
    • Make time for people.
    • Practice the Golden Rule.
    • Have a natural curiosity.
    • Social intelligence includes social listening, audience segmentation, community analysis, and content performance analytics.
    • Understanding the target audience is crucial in social intelligence.
    • Balance qualitative and quantitative research in social intelligence.
    • Generosity in giving time and helping others can lead to unexpected opportunities.
    • Practice the golden rule and treat others as you want to be treated.

    Resources:

    • Frank Gregory
    • Nestle

    Where to find R.O.G. Podcast:

    R.O.G on YouTube

    R.O.G on Apple Podcasts

    R.O.G on Spotify

    How diverse is your network? N.D.I. Network Diversity Index

    What is your Generosity Style? Generosity Quiz

    Credits:

    Frank Gregory, Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.

    Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 186, with Shannon Cassidy for a Generous Leadership Coaching Tip.

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    35 mins
  • 184. The 5° Principle | Choose Connections Carefully | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip

    184. The 5° Principle | Choose Connections Carefully | Generous Leadership Coaching Tip
    Jun 11 2024
    “Don’t be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise other’s opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most importantly, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.” - Steve Jobs "Surround yourself with people who can make you even better." In this episode, Shannon Cassidy discusses the importance of choosing connections carefully as a generous leader. She emphasizes the impact of the people we surround ourselves with and provides insights on managing toxic relationships, setting boundaries, and expanding our network thoughtfully. Chapters: 00:00 The Impact of Choosing Connections Carefully03:00 Managing Toxic Relationships and Setting Boundaries04:00 Expanding Your Network Thoughtfully Shannon Cassidy is Founder and CEO of Bridge Between, Inc. a boutique leadership development firm specializing in generous leadership, behavioral change, executive presence, effective communication, collaborative teamwork, and conflict resolution. She provides Executive Coaching, Facilitation (team sessions, mentoring programs, leadership retreats, executive workshops, mediation services) and Keynote Speaking (conferences, annual events, ceremonies) all custom designed. This is her podcast, R.O.G. Return on Generosity focusing on how to be a corporate generous leader by sharing time, talent and gratitude. Shannon combines her keen ability to get to the heart of every matter with a proven track record as a corporate leader. Before founding Bridge Between, Inc. she spent years building profitable businesses and driving innovation and leadership initiatives. This real-world experience formed the bedrock of her success. She equips her clients with the strategies, tools, and inspiration to thrive during organizational change and to lead with vision, purpose, and generosity. Shannon has authored several articles and books including Discover Your Inner Strength (2009), The Five Degree Principle: How Small Changes Lead to Big Results (2013), V.I.B.E. A Self-Discovery Journey to Authentic Leadership (2014) and Grounded in Gratitude a one-line-a –day, five-year gratitude journal (2015-2023). Her current efforts focus on the benefits of Generosity at Work. R.O.G. Takeaway Tips: The people we surround ourselves with significantly influence our leadership and personal growth.Managing toxic relationships and setting boundaries is essential for maintaining positive and energizing connections.Expanding our network thoughtfully and seeking diversity in our connections is important for personal and professional growth. Resources: YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@ShannonCassidybb Bridge Between, Inc. https://bridgebetween.comThe Five Degree Principle by Shannon CassidyV.I.B.E. by Shannon Cassidy R.O.G. on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/r-o-g-return-on-generosity/id1508207492 R.O.G. on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1L9UnWdoiAX8MtRKXjdPY3 Video of this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/PNfiBD-2PLI Free N.D.I. Network Diversity Index https://bridgebetween.com/network-diversity-index/ Free Generosity Quiz https://bridgebetween.com/generosity-quiz/ Coming Next: Please join us next week, Episode 185, with special guest Frank Gregory. Credits: Sheep Jam Productions, Host Shannon Cassidy, Bridge Between, Inc.
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    6 mins