In this insightful episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains welcomes Jimi Gibson, VP of Brand Communication at Thrive Internet Marketing Agency—and a former professional magician! Together, they unpack the art (and science) of connecting with B2B SaaS customers through authentic storytelling, brand strategy, and personal visibility. Jimi Gibson shares his powerful Five Finger Framework for brand building, why founders should put a face to their company, and actionable strategies to create lasting emotional ties and customer loyalty—even in an AI-driven, content-saturated world.

If you’re a SaaS founder tired of beige, forgettable marketing and want your brand to stand out for something meaningful, this conversation is a treasure trove of tactical wisdom and inspiration.

00:00 "Feature Ops & AI Strategies"

05:07 Magic, Marketing, and Connection

08:05 "The Stump Test Mystery"

12:13 SaaS Exits, Branding, and AI

16:49 "Magic, Frameworks, and Authenticity"

19:26 "Commitment Drives Long-Term Success"

22:07 "Name Your Villain Strategically"

24:52 Thumbs Up: Measuring Impact

28:16 Customer-Centric Solutions Matter Most

31:34 Building Long-Term Customer Relationships

36:44 Identifying Competitor Weaknesses Strategically

39:20 "Defining Your Target Market"

41:00 Maximizing AB Testing Value

46:01 AI Lacks Human Connection

47:50 "Building Authority Through Personal Branding"

51:47 Essential Brand Stories Framework

"Marketing, like magic, is about capturing attention and delivering the wow—the call to action." — Jimi Gibson

"Founders, your audience is not 'everybody.' It's one person. Speak directly to them." — Jimi Gibson

"A faceless brand is forgettable. People buy from people, not just companies." — Jeff Mains

"Declare your villain. If you don't stand for something—or against something—your brand stands for nothing." — Jimi Gibson

"The clearer you can be, the more likely your message will resonate with someone who needs your solution." — Jimi Gibson

"You can't out-robot the robots. Your experience, empathy, and story are your ultimate differentiators." — Jimi Gibson

Connect Authentically, Not Generically:

Strong SaaS leaders craft messaging as if speaking to one person—even in a large market.

Show Your Face:

Humanizing your brand increases trust and long-term retention. Don’t hide behind anonymity.

Stand for (and Against) Something:

Declaring a clear brand "villain" or enemy sets your tribe apart and ignites loyalty.

Long-Term Relationships > Short-Term Transactions:

Protect your customer “family,” listen deeply, and own up to mistakes for lasting affinity.

Measure the Impact You Leave:

Track not just revenue, but employee growth, industry disruption, customer transformation, and your unique “thumbprint.”

Be Visible in the AI Era:

Customer stories, bylined articles, and video increase your odds of being cited and found as the authority, not just another generic provider.

jimi@Thriveagency.com

https://thriveagency.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimi-gibson/

In this value-packed episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains welcomes Egil Østhus, co-founder and CEO of Unleash—the world’s leading open source feature management platform. Egil dives deep into the journey from thriving in corporate boardrooms to taking the entrepreneurial leap, co-founding Unleash with his brother, and scaling a business using open source and commercial strategies.

The conversation explores critical challenges of serving both community and enterprise needs, the next-generation concept of Feature Ops, the nuanced impact of AI in software development, and the essential synergy between engineering and business for SaaS growth. Whether you’re steering product strategy or deep in the code, this episode delivers actionable insights and leadership wisdom for founders navigating modern tech landscapes.

00:00 "Building Smarter: Growth Strategies"

03:22 "Entrepreneurship Realities & Tech Futures"

07:38 Enterprise Software Delivery Challenges

13:21 "Challenges of Co-Founding Family"

16:10 "Balancing Open Source and Enterprise"

17:45 Open Source vs. Paywall Decisions

23:28 "Building Enterprise Growth Processes"

24:24 "Start Early on Commercial Strategy"

30:08 "Unified Metrics for Long-Term Impact"

32:09 "DevOps: Feature Lifecycle & Governance"

36:26 AI's Impact on Developer Roles

39:55 "Business Context for Developers"

42:37 Culture Consistency Drives Success

46:49 "Magician Marketer & Scaling Stories"

“We in the Nordics are sort of naive—we don’t understand how difficult it really is. ‘How hard can it be to build this company?’” — Egil Østhus

“Always put community trust first. If you break it, that decision is irreversible.” — Egil Østhus

“If you have the best product that nobody knows about, it’s really hard to sell it.” — Egil Østhus

“Feature Ops bridges the gap between engineering and business—bringing real-time control and risk mitigation to software delivery.” — Egil Østhus

“Every developer should challenge themselves to understand how their work impacts the business and end users.” — Egil Østhus

“Culture is consistency. It’s the boring stuff you do every day that builds a scalable company.” — Egil Østhus

Customer Value First:

“It’s all about creating customer value. Bringing product out there and building a proper business model.” (Egil Østhus)

Get Outside Your Comfort Zone:

True growth happens when you jump into deep water and test if you really can build what you preach.

Respect and Resolve Tension (Especially in Family):

In co-founder relationships, never allow tension to build—address issues immediately, maintaining respect and professionalism.

Open Source Takes Discipline:

Develop clear guiding policies on what features are open and which are gated—never betray community trust with irreversible decisions.

Build Commercial Capacity Early:

Don’t wait for sales and marketing to “catch up”—grow those functions as soon as possible to accelerate learning and scale.

Engineers Need Business Context:

The best developers deeply understand the product’s business impact, continually interact with customers, and help shape business direction.

egil@getunleash.io

https://www.getunleash.io

In this episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains sits down with Anthony Franco—serial entrepreneur, co-author of AI First Principles and the Wiser Method, and host of the How to Founder podcast—to talk about what it really takes to implement AI effectively in SaaS businesses. The conversation breaks past the usual hype, diving deep into the practical messiness of entrepreneurship, building tech that serves real humans (not just outputs), and how intentional iteration leads to successful outcomes.

Anthony Franco shares brutally honest stories of failure, the necessity of understanding end users, and the importance of starting with a noble cause before diving into AI adoption. If you’re a founder wanting actionable strategies to build a future-proof company in the age of AI, this is your episode.

00:00 "AI, Bias, and Holographic Futures"

03:44 "Future, Revenue Systems, and Strategy"

07:34 "Entrepreneurs Fuel Prosperity"

10:36 "Value Your Job, Avoid Mistakes"

15:02 "Earn the Right to Rebuild"

18:57 "User Experience Insights Revolution"

21:34 Necessary Complexity and Risk Management

25:49 "Leadership's Four Key Relationships"

28:23 "Wiser Method: AI Principles"

32:30 AI Missteps: Autonomy vs Collaboration

35:25 "Challenging Ideas and Biases"

38:03 "Readiness for Agentic Orchestration"

43:00 "Feature Flags & Brand Magic"

“Entrepreneurs are the pioneers of economic prosperity—the ones willing to look foolish bring prosperity to all.” —Anthony Franco

“If you automate broken things, you’re just scaling your problems.” —Anthony Franco

“Design for how the world is—not just how you wish it would be.” —Anthony Franco

“The reason you write software is to make someone’s life easier—not just your own.” —Anthony Franco

“Stop coding. Go talk to the person you’re coding for—not your manager, your end user.” —Anthony Franco

“If you win 10% of the time and fail 90%, you still win. Micro-failures fuel learning.” —Anthony Franco

Lead Arm-in-Arm, Not From Afar

Great leaders work alongside their teams, getting “calluses” from real work

Set Honest Expectations About Entrepreneurship

Don’t sell the dream—share failures and chaos as well as successes to guide founders realistically

Talk to End Users—Don’t Just Delegate Discovery

Leaders must become chief customer advocates; direct feedback is transformative

Don’t Automate for Automation’s Sake

Evaluate the root causes and bottlenecks before layering on tools

Embrace Necessary Complexity

Not all complexity is bad. Sometimes it’s a competitive advantage or required for regulatory compliance

Start Small—Iterate and Learn Before Scaling AI

Focus on incremental improvement, pilot adoption, and learning from failures

anthony@suitepea.com

aifirstprinciples.org

https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonyfranco/

x.com/anthonyfranco

The Captain's Keys

Small Fish, Big Pond – https://smallfishbigpond.com/ Use the promo code ‘SaaSFuel’

Champion Leadership Group – https://championleadership.com/

Website -

In this mind-bending episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains chats with Darren Milne, co-founder and CEO of VividQ, about the future of holographic displays and how true 3D experiences will revolutionize everything from automotive HUDs to the way we watch TV, work, and interact with AI.

Darren Milne unpacks his journey from academia to entrepreneurship, describes the defining moment when he saw a real hologram for the first time, and outlines how his team is making science fiction a reality—including progress toward room-scale “holodecks.” Along the way, you’ll learn practical lessons about bridging science and commercialization, building successful licensing models, scaling with partnerships, and staying grounded while pursuing world-changing innovation.

00:00 "Holographic AI Revolution"

05:15 From Academia to Business Shift

14:08 "Holographic Display Business Strategy"

19:31 Automotive HUDs: Future-Ready Adaptability

24:48 "VR Nausea Explained by Science"

29:41 Building-Sized Holograms Revolution

32:57 "Creating Our Own Category"

42:25 "Software-Driven Hardware Control"

47:05 "Challenges of Licensing Innovation"

51:59 "Rethinking Growth and Investment"

56:05 "Epic Holographic Display Project"

01:02:20 "Insights, AI Growth, and Holodecks"

“Sometimes, in the pursuit of knowledge, you need a lot more money—and the way to get that is to create things people want to buy.” — Darren Milne

“The cars are all different, but with holography, the HUD doesn’t have to be. Software solves what used to take an assembly line.” — Darren Milne

“Every time I show a real hologram demo, people still ask if it’s fake. Once you see it, everything changes.” — Darren Milne

“You don’t need to build all the hardware to win big—sometimes licensing your tech brings more scale and staying power.” — Darren Milne

“If money were no object, I’d build the holodeck—an entire room of interactive holograms for training, gaming, everything.” — Darren Milne

“We thought building-sized holograms required new tech, but turns out we could do it with off-the-shelf laptop screens…and a lot of them.” — Darren Milne

Embrace Mindset Shifts

Moving from academia to entrepreneurship means valuing impact as much as knowledge. Sometimes, making ideas real requires leaving comfort zones.

Specialize, Then Delegate

You can’t be both the chief researcher and the chief executive for long. Recognize your strengths and trust your team to handle complementary roles.

Validate with Partners, Not Just Product

Early commercial traction can come from licensing and partnerships, especially when full-scale manufacturing or hardware isn’t feasible.

Solve for ROI, Not Just Coolness

Customers may love new tech, but recurring revenue comes from solving their biggest, most overlooked pain (e.g., HUD manufacturing savings).

Don’t Hire for Vanity, Hire for Necessity

Rapid hiring because “everyone else is scaling” can lead to layoffs and wasted resources if the technology isn’t ready for mass adoption.

Stay Resilient & Honest

Long sales cycles and the need to “build the category” require grit. When mistakes happen (such as premature scaling), own them, learn, and course correct.

https://www.vividq.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/darran-milne/

The Captain's Keys

Small Fish, Big Pond – https://smallfishbigpond.com/ Use the promo code...

In this value-packed episode of SaaS Fuel, Mark Osborne, founder of Modern Revenue Strategies and top 25 marketing technology trailblazer, joins host VO and Jeff Mains for a tactical deep dive into building holistic, scalable revenue systems that go beyond the siloed tactics of old.

Mark reveals why random acts of marketing and sales are growth killers, the transformative impact of aligning marketing, sales, and customer success, and practical steps for identifying and nurturing your ideal customers. You’ll also learn how storytelling and “microscripts” can drive trust and reduce friction, the importance of bow-tie funnels (aka the power of retention and expansion), and get a playbook for creating try-before-you-buy offers that accelerate confidence. If you want your SaaS business to be built for significance and scale—this episode is your treasure map.

00:00 "Mastering Sales & Revenue Strategy"

05:11 "Building Effective Revenue Systems"

06:17 Revenue Growth Through Three Systems

12:35 Identifying Top Customers Strategically

13:39 Targeting the Right CRM Customers

19:31 "Aligning Teams to Drive Revenue"

23:49 B2B Buying Shift: Trust Erodes

25:34 Health, Perception, and AI Challenges

29:02 "Bite-Sized Client Value Strategy"

32:12 Effective SaaS Onboarding Strategies

35:49 Focus on One GTM Strategy

40:50 The Power of Specialization

42:35 "Storytelling Powers Human Connection"

47:28 "Creating a Category of One"

48:35 "Collaborative Metrics and Visual Mapping"

52:31 "3D Holograms & AI Innovation"

"But what I find is that really building a revenue system that has multiple components and sort of interlocking components is the real key to growth." — Mark Osborne

Category of One Marketing: "And so we have built a proprietary proven process that leverages our unique expertise for this unique marketplace. And if you believe that that's the right way to solve this problem, then we're the only solution that exists for you." — Mark Osborne

Quote: "the stat is now that something like 70% of the buyer's journey is done before they talk to a single provider, much less you, if you're the second or third tier provider in the marketplace." — Mark Osborne

Lower-Risk Sales Strategies: "it's just a way of giving them that bite of the burger so they can then be excited about coming in and finishing the meal rather than feeling like, well, should I talk to five more people or two more people or get three more references instead." — Mark Osborne

The Power of Storytelling in Sales: "Telling stories is the way that we really resonate and connect with people. So each of those different sort of layers of really small stories and really, you know, sort of large allegories are important throughout the sales process." — Mark Osborne

Build Systems, Not Silos

Sustainable growth comes when every part of the revenue journey is connected—attraction, acceleration, activation.

Customer Obsession Beats Logo Hunting

Long-term companies focus on advocating for and expanding existing customers, not just acquiring new ones.

Say No to the Wrong Revenue

The discipline to turn away poorly-matched clients fuels long-term success and product integrity.

Create Alignment Through Visual...

In this groundbreaking episode of SaaS Fuel, Jeff Mains sits down with Amos Bar Joseph, CEO and co-founder of Swann, the AI-native company on a quest to build the world’s first truly autonomous business. With only three human founders and a fleet of AI agents, Swann is redefining the startup playbook—targeting $10M ARR per employee and running leaner operations without sacrificing growth or burning out teams.

Amos Bar Joseph shares how Swann scales via intelligent automation and human-AI collaboration, creating systems where both people and agents operate in their zone of genius. Listeners learn actionable ways to build their “AI muscle,” leverage experimental GTM strategies, and develop organizations that amplify human talent rather than replace it.

00:00 "Building Resilient Customer-Focused Teams"

05:23 Reinventing the Startup Playbook

08:52 "Scaling Innovation Through AI Agents"

10:14 "Building an AI Support Agent"

15:00 "Optimizing Funnel With Human Leadership"

17:16 "AI-Powered GTM Automation Tool"

20:51 AI Amplifying Human Talent

26:56 Continuous Innovation Through Experiments

28:13 "Balancing Risk in Business Growth"

32:43 "Building AI Muscle Internally"

36:37 "AI Failures: Perfection Over Adaptation"

39:11 Defining Failure in Experiments

42:59 "Redefining Scale with Human-AI"

48:21 Automated Sales Lead Management

52:06 "Connect, Learn, Build Autonomously"

54:40 "Scaling Revenue & Holographic Tech"

"It wasn't like that. What happened is that we started iterating in human in the loop workflows where humans and agents work side by side and there's an iteration mechanism where we refine that collaboration until we got to a process that one person could scale to an output of what used to in the past." — Amos Bar Joseph

Quote: "It's kind of like a developer that works with sales and marketing and sometimes founders or rev ops to turn any go to market idea into an agentic workflow. So you can scale go to market with intelligence, not revenue, not headcount, and really iterate on your go to market at the speed of thought." — Amos Bar Joseph

Quote: "The moment that you remove all the technical complexity with a tool like Swann, then you can start iterating on your go to market at the speed of thought." — Amos Bar Joseph

Quote: "what we aim for is actually these unconventional playbooks, because these playbooks, these tactics, are the ones that you can drive the most disproportionate value from the resource that you invest in." — Amos Bar Joseph

Why Most AI Projects Fail: "The number one reason for that is that the user, the buyer, the organization is optimizing and the vendor together, they're optimizing for perfection, not for adaptation, as you just laid out, Jeff. And the reason is why that is the number one reason, is because you don't know what perfection looks like when you start." — Amos Bar Joseph

Leverage Talent, Not Headcount:

Focus on value creation per employee, using AI to scale intelligent output—not just adding more people.

Iterate to Innovate:

Use experimentation and iterative processes to refine human-agent collaboration and maximize business results.

Embrace the Zone of Genius:

Place team members in roles where their passions and skills create disproportionate value; let AI take on everything outside that zone.

Bias Toward Building

Adopt a build-first mentality with AI tools—solve your own business bottlenecks rather than just buying external solutions.

Stand Out With Unconventional Playbooks:

In...

This episode dives deep into the shifting landscape of SaaS growth, investment philosophy, and leadership with Klee Kleber, former Dell and Rackspace executive and co-founder at Build Group.

Klee Kleber shares why he prefers the "long game" model over traditional VC, explains the math behind durable businesses, talks about the importance of relentless execution, and how empathy, self-awareness, and diversity drive lasting success. From stories of luck at Dell to building customer love at Rackspace and the bold ambition of Topwater, this episode is packed with pragmatic wisdom for SaaS founders, operators, and investors.

00:00 Building for Impact and Permanence

03:12 "Strategic Investing and Growth Playbooks"

06:40 "Efficient Growth Through Discipline"

12:47 "Separate Division for Innovation"

15:14 Apple's Strategy: Innovation & Adaptability

19:21 "Scaling After Market Fit"

20:32 Obsessed Founders: Numbers & Customers

23:57 "Teamwork Drives Effective Leadership"

27:49 "Commit, Focus, Scale Success"

30:08 Exit Strategy Driven by Management

34:24 "Growth Limits and Opportunities"

39:31 "Customer Loyalty Drives Growth"

40:16 Target Audience Traits Matter

46:10 "Defining ICP: Human vs. MBA"

49:45 AI vs Doctor: Diagnosis Revolution

51:44 "Leadership, Innovation, Differentiation Challenges"

54:29 "AI-Driven Growth with Topwater"

"You can't diversify your way to success—you can only retain your wealth through diversification. To build a company, you have to go all in." — Klee Kleber

"Start with customer love—and radiate out from there. Obsess over the customers who love you, and the referrals will follow." — Klee Kleber

"Relentless execution is what differentiates great companies from those that just do okay or even good." — Jeff Mains

"Efficiency isn’t boring—it’s the secret to durable, compounding growth that actually lasts." — Klee Kleber

"Most business to me is treading water, being disciplined, not burning, testing ideas, measuring like crazy, until you find the live wire." — Klee Kleber

"Self-aware founders who build teams that compensate for their weaknesses are the ones who scale and thrive." — Klee Kleber

1. Build for the Long Game – Focus on investments and company-building strategies that aim for durability and lasting impact, not just quick wins.
2. Efficiency is a Competitive Advantage – Discipline in metrics like LTV/CAC and payback periods creates sustainable growth, instead of hoping for a lucky exit.
3. Relentless Execution Beats Strategy Alone – Luck may start the journey, but relentless, focused execution is what converts opportunity into success.
4. Balance Data with Customer Contact – Great founders marry spreadsheet discipline with real human customer feedback and empathy.
5. Embrace Diverse Perspectives – Teams with varied backgrounds, skills, and viewpoints consistently outperform homogenous ones and spark true breakthroughs.
6. Self-Awareness Multiplies Leadership Impact – Know your personal strengths and weaknesses; build teams that complement you and delegate accordingly.

klee@buildgroup.com

https://www.buildgroup.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kleekleber/

The Captain's Keys

Small Fish, Big Pond –

This week, Monica Marquez joins SaaS Fuel to dive deep into the real barriers behind successful AI adoption and organizational transformation. With a career spanning Google, Goldman Sachs, and the launch of Flip Work, Monica shares insights on bridging the gap between technology and human behavior, demystifying AI for non-technical teams, and championing change management that works for people—not just processes.

Discover the critical mindset shifts, the role of psychological safety, and why the future of work is about "survival of the fastest." Plus, get firsthand strategies for leaders to drive transformation and build trust with AI.

00:00 "Embracing Change for Success"

04:03 "Reinventing Work Mindset with AI"

07:33 "Adapting Success in AI Era"

11:08 "Leveraging AI to Enhance Work"

15:34 Building Trust in AI Use

19:05 Embrace Change to Avoid Extinction

21:37 "AI Accelerates Growth, Challenges Adaptability"

27:55 AI Skills: From Prompting to Mastery

30:24 Rapid Innovation and Iteration Challenges

35:38 Leveraging AI to Enhance Strengths

37:17 AI Empowers Founders to Execute

AI Adoption Struggles: "Millions, billions of dollars have been invested in the IT portion or the tools, but less than 2% of the companies are actually seeing ROI on that. And what they're really understanding is that it's because nobody's teaching the tool to the human." — Monica Marquez

Viral Topic: Rethinking Success in the Age of AI: "And so getting them to understand that you have to really unlearn and really destroy, disrupt that, that belief system and really start to create this equation that impact equals success." — Monica Marquez

AI vs Human Judgment: "Because what people don't realize is yes, AI is going to replace some of this monotonous administrative like, you know, work that most of us actually should be pretty happy to hand off. But, but the AI doesn't really know client relationships. The AI doesn't know how to read the room." — Monica Marquez

Building Trust with AI: "People don't trust the AI yet. And part of it is you can't build trust without evidence or without an exchange of, like, doing things." — Monica Marquez

"I feel like AI has helped us get further much faster with less people because AI is doing a lot of this that we would have potentially outsourced in the past." — Monica Marquez

Lead With Evidence, Not Assumptions

Encourage teams to collect data by experimenting with AI—overcoming fear and building trust through firsthand experience.

Prioritize Human Enablement

Invest in change management and behavioral shifts, not just technology rollouts.

Create Psychological Safety

Enable leaders and teams to "not know" and to admit uncertainty, fostering open experimentation and growth.

Champion Unlearning and Reinvention

Help employees break free from old success equations and conditioned beliefs.

Treat Digital Tools as Teammates

Coach AI (like an intern), iterating and refining outputs rather than expecting perfection on the first try.

Model Change at Every Level

Executives must embody the transformation—they are responsible for setting cultural signals for rapid adaptation.

monica@fts-ai.com

https://flipwork.ai

https://www.linkedin.com/in/themonicamarquez/

The Captain's...