On the podcast: How to make better decisions with data, the many pitfalls of collecting and interpreting data, and why the best executive dashboard is probably a hand-written weekly email.

Key Takeaways:
📝Balance data collection with business goals. Collecting all possible data can drown teams in noise and lead to compliance risks. Focus on collecting semantically important data that aligns with business goals and use cases to avoid unnecessary complexity and costs.

💡Prevent exponential cost increases by structuring data early. Establishing a well-structured data collection and management process early on prevents costly modifications and adjustments later. Early alignment and thoughtful planning are crucial.

🔒 Maintain control over data collection to simplify compliance. Managing your own data collection processes can reduce legal and compliance challenges associated with third-party data processors. This is especially crucial for adhering to regulations like GDPR.

🔧Opt for off-the-shelf data solutions early on. Leveraging open-source or ready-made solutions can save time and resources. Maintain a clear evaluation structure for transitioning to custom solutions when needed, and accept changes in data collection methods to avoid outdated systems.

📊Simplified insights over complex dashboards. Dashboards can overwhelm executives with too much data. Instead, providing a succinct, focused summary of key insights through something as simple as a weekly email can be more effective for decision-making.

About Guest

📈 Director of Data Products at News Corp.

💡With over 15 years of experience, Taylor is an expert in building and implementing effective data collection and analytics strategies — helping organizations like Disney+, Business Insider, and Deloitte collect the right data and turn it into actionable insights.

👋 LinkedIn

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• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
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Episode Highlights

[3:44] Laying a foundation: Data collection is a lot like constructing a building — setting up the right framework from the beginning can save you a lot of time, effort, and money later.

[7:30] The Goldilocks zone: Collecting either too much or too little data is costly and can potentially have ramifications for data regulation and privacy laws.

[16:58] Information overload: Data is only helpful if you derive actionable information from it.

[20:33] Distilling data: What is a “data product” team? (And why might you need one?)

[26:13] Build vs. buy: Most companies should start with an off-the-shelf data collection solution instead of building something internally — then consider a switch later when the scale and financials make sense.

[33:45] What’s in a name? What you call specific data points and even your data collection system can be very important.

[42:11] Ditch the dashboard: Fancy data analytics dashboards need to be interpreted to be valuable — and without context, they can be misleading.

[51:27] Trix are for… kids?: How Taylor’s experience promoting the television show “Bluey” on Disney+ illustrates the incredible power of data analytics.

On the podcast: How Mojo grew to over $1M in MRR, the most impactful pricing and paywall experiments, and why it’s important to choose complexity instead of just letting it happen.

Key Takeaways:

💪Bravery to pivot leads to long-term success. Early popularity can be deceiving. Without strong retention, it's time to pivot. Build features users love to evolve from a gimmick to a sustainable business.

🧱Make your paywall more prominent. Show your paywall during onboarding. Then, iterate on messaging, design, and pricing, focusing on one element at a time.

💲Pricing will always annoy someone. If no one complains, you’re underpricing. Be strategic about who you upset and how many people.

🤝Viral loops reduce the need for ads. Heavy ad spend can hide a lack of product-market fit. Build sharing and virality into your app first, then consider paid acquisition.

📈Choose complexity based on impact. Focus on your team’s strengths. Growth can be product-led or through, for example, paid acquisition, depending on what suits your team and app best.

About Guest

👨‍💻 CEO and co-founder of the video editing app Mojo.

🎬 Former GoPro employee and graduate of the Y Combinator accelerator program, Francescu and his team have built one of the top mobile apps for creating and editing social video content.

👋 LinkedIn

Resources

• Connect with Francescu on X: https://x.com/Francescu
• More about Mojo: https://mojo-app.com
• Paul Graham’s essay “How To Do Great Work”: https://paulgraham.com/greatwork.html

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ
  
  

Episode Highlights

[4:27] AI + Mobile = ❤️: Why AI is probably the next mobile revolution.

[6:16] Going Pro: How Francescu got his start building mobile subscription apps.

[7:44] Pivot… PIVOT: Despite early success with their augmented reality app, Francescu and his team had to shut it down and pivot to a new idea.

[15:12] Pricing and paywalls and packaging, oh my: Why you need to show your paywall during onboarding (and other monetization lessons Francescu learned building Mojo).

[27:42] Viral moments: Building social sharing features into your app could save you time and money on user acquisition.

[36:19] The product-led growth trap: Developing new product features isn’t always the key to growth.

[41:15] Priced to annoy: If no one is mad about the cost of your app, your prices are probably too low.

On the podcast: Quitting a job to build your own apps, returning to that job after failing to gain traction, and the inflection point that allowed our guest to finally quit for good.

Key Takeaways:

💡If your first side project doesn’t take off, try again — Reviving a lackluster launch can be tempting, but it might indicate a lack of demand. Instead, start fresh with a new idea and watch for early signs of product-market fit.

💰Invest more in your product once you have “pull” and a channel — Achieving early product-market fit and having a reliable acquisition channel allows you to focus on enhancing your product and experimenting with monetization strategies.

🔞Avoid relying solely on one acquisition channel — While a dependable early channel like ASO is crucial, it comes with risks outside your control. Diversify by investing in owned or paid channels to adapt to changes more effectively.

🧑‍💻Building in public offers numerous advantages — Developing your app publicly immerses you in a supportive community of indie developers, providing motivation, inspiration, and valuable feedback. However, it can also attract copycat competitors.

📈"Test higher prices" should be at the top of your to-do list — Raising your app’s price may seem risky, but many indie developers are overly cautious. A/B testing can help you safely explore the impact of different price points without significant customer backlash.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Independent app developer and creator of HabitKit and Liftbear.

💡Sebastian began his career as a corporate web developer and became a full-time indie app developer after his habit-tracking app HabitKit took off.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• SubClub

Episode Highlights

[1:04] Web versus mobile: What motivated Sebastian to switch from web to mobile app development.

[4:17] Free solo: Having a corporate day job might not let you stretch your creative muscles as much as building your own concepts.

[6:43] Drive: If you’re going to build an indie app or venture-backed startup, make sure it’s something you need to do.

[12:13] Risky business: The riskiness of leaving a full-time job to pursue an indie venture is different for everyone, depending on life stage, finances, and family obligations.

[16:39] Just ship it: Your first idea might not be great, but getting started will lead to new, better ideas.

[24:04] If at first you don’t succeed: Sometimes it’s better to give up on an idea that isn’t working so you can focus on one with better product-market fit.

[28:38] Doing the (side) hustle: Making the decision to keep your day job or fully commit to your side gig can be tough.

[34:45] Changing the channel: The app stores are a black box — it’s a good idea to invest in additional acquisition channels in case of algorithm changes.

[38:26] Building in public: Having a following on social media can be a great source of support and user loyalty outside of the app stores.

[45:00] Raising prices: Don’t be afraid to experiment with higher prices — many apps are leaving money on the table.

On the podcast: What to do when there are no jobs to be done, how to build innovative features, and why copying Duolingo’s engagement strategy probably won’t work for your app.

Key Takeaways:

🏆 To win over a mass market, you need to discover your app’s trigger. Apps serving niche audiences often have a well-defined job-to-be-done. Apps aiming for broad appeal, however, need to identify the triggers in a user’s daily life they will optimize for, in the absence of a specific user goal.

🪄 A framework for user retention. Apps that serve a mass audience need to work extra hard to engage and retain users. While niche apps might be inherently more retentive, they too would benefit from making the app: magical, relevant, intuitive in real-time, novel, and pleasurable.

🥅 Why you might not want to make “the Duolingo” of your niche. Apps like Duolingo try hard to shame you for not using them but make completing the day’s goal quick and easy. This approach may not be suitable for all long-term goals and doesn't work well when your aim is to retain as many users as possible.

🧑🏼‍🎨 Innovation isn’t accidental, it’s designed - here’s a framework to help:

1. Always align with your mission.
2. Visualize the specific user you’re building this feature for.
3. Specify the triggers you’re addressing.
4. Know the job to be done for the user.

Think through all of these areas when prioritizing your backlog.

👍🏼 Some features should be considered must-haves. Features that all your competitors have, fulfill a promise you sell users on, or whose absence will drive users to a competitor, or cause high levels of frustration if missing, should be prioritized. Deciding whether to prioritize these over innovative additions is up to you.

🦄 The other feature category to build for is “delighters.” While it’s difficult to know whether a feature will delight users, they typically drive retention, complete a known job in a delightful or magical way, and create “aha” or “wow” moments for the user.

About Guest

👨‍💻 VP of Strategy and creator of core features at Welltory.

💡Asya leads her team to build thoughtful, mission-aligned features that delight 8+ million active users.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on Twitter
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‣ Jacob Eiting
‣ RevenueCat
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Episode Highlights

[0:44] The Welltory story: How (and why) Jane Smorodnikova founded Welltory.

[6:55] Trigger happy: Some apps don’t have an obvious “job to be done.” When this happens, finding and nurturing the trigger for users to open your app is crucial.

[10:18] Making magic: Welltory’s framework for building a delightful, sticky app: Make it magical, make it relevant, make sense in real time, make it novel, make it pleasurable.

[21:14] The Duolingo of wellness apps?: Why Duolingo’s retention strategy wouldn’t work for Welltory.

[26:16] An innovation framework: When deciding what new features to build, align with your mission, know your personas, identify their triggers, and figure out what immediate and high-level problems you’re solving for them.

[37:11] Driving retention: The secret sauce for retaining users for the long term? Make your app experience magical and novel, provide relief, personalize and gamify the experience, and give users bragging rights and social sharing features.

[40:32] Feature deal-breakers: Make sure you build both must-have and nice-to-have features to avoid frustrating users and prevent them from switching to a competitor app.

On the podcast: How developers can launch and optimize their app listings on the Google Play Store. A conversation from Google I/O 2024 with Sarah Karam, director of Apps Partnerships at Google.

Key Takeaways:

There are now more ways to optimize revenue with Google Play Commerce, such as installment subscriptions and automatically adjusted local pricing.

On Android, the leading apps diversify their monetization. Instead of offering just subscriptions, for example, they offer IAPs to cater for diverse user preferences. Tipping, for example, has seen huge growth.

The leading Android apps also adjust their overall approach to cater for the huge and diverse user base. Just replicating your iOS strategy will only serve a small fraction of potential customers. How can you serve someone on a $200 phone as well as a $2000 one?

“The consumer rarely buys what you think you sell” and understanding this can lead to secondary product-market fit, unlocking new growth. Stop thinking about your app in terms of the feature(s) it offers and more about what problem it solves.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Director of Google’s Apps Partnerships team.

🤖 Sarah is passionate about helping developers succeed on Google Play Store and the Android ecosystem.

👋 LinkedIn

Resources

Google Play Academy

Guidelines to Getting Featured on Google Play

Guides to Help Grow Your Business on Google Play

Google I/O 2024 Keynote

Engage SDK

Custom Store Listings

Google Play business community on X

Android Developer YouTube Channel

Episode Highlights:

[3:57] Feature presentation: Getting your app featured on the Google Play Store can be great, but it isn’t the most important thing (and you still need to market your app to take advantage of being featured).

[8:46] Proactive engagement: Google’s newly announced Engage SDK (currently in developer preview) will surface apps at relevant times for users in the context they’re most likely to engage.

[13:53] Easier ways to pay (and get paid): New commerce options — including newly accepted forms of payment, installment payments, and student and senior plans — allow Android developers to serve more users around the world.

[23:37] Custom is key: Google Play Store listings can now be customized by the keywords users searched to find the app.

[29:38] Diversifying payments: Apps that offer in-app payments (IAP) in addition to subscriptions tend to perform better than apps that offer subscriptions alone.

[31:54] iOS =/= Android: To take full advantage of the Play Store, developers need to think about the diverse devices, budgets, and preferences of the 2.5 billion Android users around the world.

[34:40] Baby steps: Small experiments (like offering a paid 7-day pass instead of a free trial) can help you determine what works best for your app and tailor your offerings for diverse markets.

[45:00] Penny for your app?: Tipping is a surprisingly effective way of letting users pay for your product.

On the podcast: How the Microsoft 365 team optimizes their apps for the app stores and the top paywall optimization tips for enterprise apps and start-ups. Part 2 of our conversation with Ramit Arora.

Key Takeaways:

💼 Use jobs-to-be-done to inform your app store optimization (ASO) keywords strategy. Optimize for keywords that align with what your potential audience is hoping to accomplish. To discover what these keywords are, use the same user research that informs your product roadmap.

🔐 Use Apple Search Ads (ASA) to unearth highly profitable keywords for ASO. A mistake that some apps make is to rank for keywords that are easy to rank for, not for ones that will drive revenue. Use ASA to discover which keywords are driving subscription growth, not just downloads and engagement.

💲 High-impact paywall experiments that work for Microsoft will probably work for you. These include making the more expensive (family) plan the default option, anchoring the price of yearly plans to the monthly equivalent (emphasizing value), and ensuring that free trial offers use the word “free” on the CTA button itself.

About Guest:

👨‍💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.

🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.

👋 LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:

[3:31] Choosing key keywords: Don’t go after keywords simply because they’re easy to rank for — select keywords that will actually drive value for your business.

[8:54] The golden ratio: Even Microsoft has to balance their LTV vs. CAC.

[10:58] Android vs. iOS: Right now, it’s more difficult to monetize on Android, but it’s a promising market.

[13:01] Testing, 123: Microsoft optimizes paywalls with friendly CTAs and GIFs that show (rather than tell) the value proposition.

[15:55] Premium presentation: Simple changes like switching the order of subscription options on your paywall can result in a lift in conversions and revenue.

On the podcast: Microsoft 365 app monetization and optimization, and how Microsoft is building successful apps–recorded live in Vegas at the Mobile Apps Unlocked (MAU) conference.

Key Takeaways:

📱 The App Store advantage: Microsoft's data reinforces that the App Store, despite the fees attached, offers significant advantages. The seamless experience from things such as pre-attached payment methods results in a conversion rate from trial to paid that is five times higher than on other direct channels.

🚀 On the App Store, think like a startup (even if you’re not): Despite Microsoft’s strong brand, success in the App Store requires the agility and innovation of a startup. The platform's democratic nature allows new startups to challenge established companies. Continual innovation is essential and you need to be at the top of your game with ASO.

🔗 Bundling apps can mean better retention: Combining multiple apps into a single subscription can boost user retention by meeting a variety of needs. Even if a use case is one-off, there will be other use cases met by other apps. This strategy generally involves developing a wide range of features rather than focusing deeply on a single application.

🧠 Integrate AI thoughtfully: When integrating AI, it's important to consider if it genuinely enhances the tasks users perform and brings a desktop-level experience to mobile devices. This ensures the technology is both practical and user-focused, and not simply jumping on the bandwagon.

⚖️ As you scale, prioritization never becomes any less important: As the number of monthly active users grows, you need to think bigger and bigger in terms of impact. Focus on optimizations that affect large user groups. Simple improvements in app reliability, performance, and the purchase process can often impact the largest number of users.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.

🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up.

👋 LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[1:14] From desktop to mobile: Microsoft is famous for its desktop software, but it’s increasingly prioritizing its mobile apps to keep up with consumer trends.

[3:09] Paying by phone: Users prefer to make purchases using their mobile device — trial-to-paid conversion rates are nearly 5x higher on mobile than other channels.

[4:56] The start-up mindset: Think like a start-up to stay agile against the competition in the app stores.

[6:21] Value they can’t refuse: To retain users over the long term, Microsoft bundles multiple products and features into a single cost-effective app.

[8:22] Staying ahead of the curve: The key to becoming and staying a leading app? Neutralize the competition, differentiate, and incubate.

[17:19] Lighting up the small screen: Apps like Photoroom and Microsoft Copilot are using AI to make tasks historically done on a desktop easy on a mobile device.

[21:09] You can’t do it all: Prioritize the app optimizations and features that will have the biggest impact on your business.