Jake Zwaagstra is the CEO of TriCelta Development and a veteran builder of complex hospitality projects from the Las Vegas Strip to tribal mega-developments. He's worked both GC-side and owner-side, translating vision into budgets, drawings into buildings, and chaos into opening days. Susan and Jake talk about function over flair and momentum over mayhem.

What You'll Learn About:

• The owner's-eye view that changes everything about building

• Lessons hotel development can steal from nuclear projects

• The real difference between a project manager and a development manager

• What developers actually do day to day on hotel builds

• Smart ways to stay ahead of supply-chain chaos

• Why front-desk mockups save years of operator frustration

• The three-part formula for better design decisions

• How model rooms power everything from IT to marketing

• Why tech-forward hotels still need human touch

• How to rescue a luxury project from $1,100-per-foot wallpaper

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Development Management Is More Than Construction

Jake distinguishes development management from project management—it's about guiding the project from concept to completion, not just managing timelines and contractors. His team's role is to translate an owner's vision into an operationally sound, financially viable, and buildable reality. They stay several steps ahead of potential roadblocks—whether that's tariffs, supply chain issues, or union disputes—to keep the project moving and protect the owner's investment.

2. Function and Long-Term Operations Trump Aesthetics

Jake's philosophy is clear: never "value engineer" something that affects the operator's ability to run the property. Early decisions—like front desk ergonomics, model room mockups, and material choices—should be made with the day-two operator in mind. He prioritizes function over form, lead time over looks, and performance over preference to ensure hotels are built to operate smoothly and sustainably long after the ribbon-cutting.

3. Communication and Accountability Are the Secret Weapons

Lessons from outside hospitality, such as his experience building a nuclear enrichment facility, reinforced Jake's belief in over-communication and structured accountability. His "Plan of the Day" approach—daily 15-minute check-ins to clarify goals and track follow-through—keeps massive projects aligned and moving. That same mindset applies to hospitality development: clear expectations, daily progress, and follow-up ensure no one loses sight of the big picture, even on complex, multi-year builds.

Jake Zwaagstra on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-zwaagstra/

TriCelta Development
https://www.triceltadevelopment.com/

Other Episodes You May Like:

57: Teddy Ruxpin Witchcraft 🧸🧙‍♀️ with Renee Bagshaw
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/57

167: Compost, Compost, Compost with Amy Wald
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/167

119: Never Check Bag with Scott Lamont
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/119

Ashley Ching is the founder and CEO of InHaven, a company standardizing vacation rentals with hotel-grade essentials and service. After 13 years at Tiffany & Co., she saw how consistent standards create unforgettable experiences and brought that rigor to short-term rentals. Susan and Ashley talk about standards, scale, and service.

What You'll Learn About:

• How a free research study can turbocharge credibility, conferences, and customers

• What Tiffany's playbook taught Ashley about pairing consistency with authenticity

• How Westin's Heavenly Bed reset guest expectations across an entire industry

• The five pillars great operators share—and the warning signs when each starts wobbling

• How grouping by shared demand drivers sharpens ops and marketing

• Why too many owners tank speed, focus, and sanity

• Why empowered on-the-ground pros outdeliver policy-bound HQs

• How hospitality hits dis-economies of scale and where the hidden labor costs lurk

• How a new vacation-rental quality framework helps guests know what they're booking

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Consistency + Authenticity = Guest Trust

Ashley draws on her Tiffany & Co. background to show that hospitality success hinges on balancing certainty (clear, dependable standards) with authenticity (local character and uniqueness). Just as Westin's Heavenly Bed redefined consistency in hotels, In Haven is working to create a reliability framework for vacation rentals so guests know what to expect without losing the charm of individual homes.

2. The Five Pillars of Successful Hospitality Management

From her case study of Vacasa, Aimbridge, and decades of roll-ups before them, Ashley identified five pillars that predict whether management companies succeed or fail:

Curated portfolio (avoiding too many "bad apples"),

Properties grouped by similar demand drivers,

Limited number of owners,

Local-oriented operations,

Empowered hospitality professionals.
When these pillars erode—especially through over-centralization or owner overload—companies face churn, brain drain, and eventual collapse.

3. Bigger Isn't Always Better: Diseconomies of Scale in Hospitality

Contrary to the industry's obsession with scale, Ashley's research shows that large property managers often face rising costs rather than savings. Unlike manufacturing, where size brings efficiency, hospitality is labor-intensive and complexity grows with scale. More units mean more staff layers, owner demands, and overhead—leading to diseconomies of scale instead of the promised efficiencies.

Ashley Ching on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-ching-inhaven-b56a843/

InHaven
https://inhaven.com/

GET THE CASE STUDY HERE
https://inhaven.com/case-study/

Other Episodes You May Like:

145: Chamber of Commerce with Alex Alioto and Noel Russell
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/145

48: Go At It Boldly with Alex Husner and Annie Holcombe
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/48

106: Hot Tub Bandits with Annie Sloan
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/106

Al Lagunas is the co-founder of Levee, an AI-driven vision-and-voice platform that converts room inspections into verified data and automated workflows. A first-generation Mexican American from Chicago, Al's people-first lens was shaped by his mom's hotel housekeeping career. Susan and Al talk about pitching, personalization, and productivity.

What You'll Learn About:

• How physical and digital products sell differently

• Lessons from scaling a startup

• The people-first lens Al brings from his family's housekeeping roots

• "Time to Value" as the overlooked metric in hotel ops

• How Levee's one-button vision and voice AI verifies room setup

• Real-time feedback that gets new housekeepers to three-month performance by their fourth room

• Closing the personalization fulfillment gap

• The near-future mix of human teams plus AI agents and robotics

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Time to Value Is More Important Than "Training Time"

Al reframed the industry's labor challenge: the real problem isn't a shortage of workers, but how quickly hotels can turn new hires into valuable contributors. Instead of focusing on a 10–20 day training period, operators should measure "time to value"—how fast a team member begins producing quality work. Using Levy's AI-assisted inspections, new housekeepers reached the performance level of 3–6 month veterans after cleaning just four rooms, which radically reduces onboarding friction.

2. Personalization Requires Operational Fulfillment, Not Just Data

Guest personalization has long been a "white whale" in hospitality, but Al emphasized that data alone isn't enough. Knowing a guest's coffee preference or pillow type doesn't matter unless the front-line team can reliably act on it. Levy addresses this by making room setup checklists dynamic and verifiable, turning guest data into consistent fulfillment. This shifts personalization from an abstract idea to a repeatable process embedded in daily operations.

3. The Workforce of the Future Will Be People + AI Agents

Al predicts that hotel back-of-house teams will evolve into a hybrid workforce of humans, AI agents, and robotics. Instead of viewing AI as a replacement, he sees it as an extension of labor—helping staff complete inspections, surface data, and automate tasks. This diversification enables leaner, more efficient teams while also opening the door for new types of roles and responsibilities as hospitality operations modernize.

Al Lagunas on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/allagunas/

Levee
https://www.levee.biz/

Other Episodes You May Like:

206: Cater Waiter Diss with Steven Moore
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/206

105: Front Desk Romance with Nima Anvar
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/105

54: Surprise Platter with Stephen Burke
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/54

Bill Fanning is an Austin-based software leader turned hospitality-tech exec who's led revenue and sales across VC-backed, public, and PE-owned companies. After falling for the community-building power of restaurants and hotels, he brought his scale-with-discipline mindset to Stayntouch, a PMS for independent hotels and multi-property portfolios. Susan and Bill talk about tech rollouts without heartburn and career pivots with purpose.

What You'll Learn About:

• How different funding models shape company growth.

• Why hotels and restaurants are the original social networks.

• What drove Bill from social media into hospitality tech.

• What it takes to roll out 140 hotels in 90 days.

• Why culture change is harder than technology change.

• Why listening beats talking in sales.

• Why hospitality expertise matters in selling software.

• How AI may reshape hotel tech—and where it falls short.

• Why hotels resist new tech and how that's changing.

• How hotel skills translate into careers beyond the industry.

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Hospitality as the Original Social Network

Bill highlighted that long before digital platforms, restaurants and hotels served as true community builders—what he calls the "OG social media." These spaces create authentic human connection, culture, and shared experiences in ways that digital networks can't replicate. His career shift from social media technology into hospitality tech reignited his passion for building community through real-world venues.

2. Sales Skills Are Transferable, but Domain Expertise Matters

While strong sales fundamentals—communication, listening, negotiation—apply across industries, selling strategic hospitality software requires a deep understanding of hotel operations. Bill emphasized that hoteliers often underestimate the value of their own experience: running complex properties gives them an expertise that's far more difficult to teach than sales technique. He believes hospitality professionals can thrive in tech by pairing their domain knowledge with learned sales skills.

3. Tech Change Is About Culture, Not Just Software

When hotels adopt new property management systems (PMS), the biggest hurdle isn't the technology itself but the cultural change required to embrace new processes. Intuitive design, hands-on training, and creating internal champions are key to adoption. Looking ahead, Bill predicts AI will accelerate tech development, but he cautions against replacing human support with bots too quickly—hospitality still depends on personal, human connection.

Bill Fanning on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/billfanning1/

Stayntouch
https://www.stayntouch.com/

Other Episodes You May Like:

103: Comedy Legend Thwarted with Jeanelle Johnson
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/103

133: Stranded in the Rain with Frank Reeves
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/133

98: Snapped Tow Rope with Craig Everett
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/98

Debbie Feldman literally grew up in hotels—her father founded Embassy Suites—and she's since worn almost every hat: GM, asset manager of a 45-hotel portfolio, and co-founder of TCOR Hotel Partners. She's led high-profile repositionings (hello, Fairmont Copley Plaza) and recently teamed with Hotel B School to build a pragmatic course on hotel investment. Susan and Debbie talk about buying basics, budget brass tacks, and booking blend.

🔔 Call Button Q: When staff ask, "Is the hotel for sale?"—lead with candor.
🎓 From GM to DOS (on purpose): Debbie took a "demotion" into sales to prove she could do it—and did.

🧾 Revenue vs. profit reality check: Early in her career, even as a GM, she admits the focus stopped at GOP.

🛑 Brand showdown: As an asset manager, Debbie hired an outside sales trainer for brand-managed hotels, got a cease-and-desist… then watched the brand adopt the same trainer chain-wide.

💸 How her group dodged COVID cash calls: Maxed every eligible relief program early, kept leverage conservative (~65%), and worked closely with a relationship lender for forbearance. Discipline > drama.

🏫 Hotel B School course—who it's for: GMs who want to speak "owner," ops pros eyeing the real-estate side, and commercial leaders (sales/rev) aiming at development.

📈 Rate, occupancy & flow-through—what owners actually want: It's not "team rate" or "team occupancy."

🧠 Deal thesis 101 for GMs: Know the hold period, cap rates, and likely exit timing so your capital asks match ownership's lifecycle.

🪄 Debbie's magic wand for NOI: Win more lowest-cost demand—local negotiated accounts + direct/brand-site booking.

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Owners Value Transparency and Alignment

Debbie emphasized that honesty is always the best policy when staff ask tough questions, like whether a hotel is for sale. She explained that owners prefer to retain staff through transitions and often provide incentives for key leaders to stay on board.

2. Think Like an Owner, Not Just an Operator

A recurring theme was the importance of GMs and property-level leaders understanding ownership concepts like hold periods, debt service, NOI, and cap rates. Debbie pointed out that too many managers stop at GOP on the P&L without considering debt, taxes, or insurance. She advised that showing up "like an owner" requires tracking those below-the-line costs and making decisions that reflect the deal thesis, not just short-term RevPAR growth.

3. The Path from Hotel Ops to Ownership is Possible and Teachable

Debbie's own career path, from GM to asset management to ownership, underscored that crossing into the investment side of hospitality is achievable. She created the Hotel B School course to help GMs, revenue leaders, and others make that leap. The course demystifies ownership jargon (IRR, debt service coverage, cap rates) and provides the tools to interview well and contribute strategically. For aspiring owners, the key is moving beyond operations to truly understand how hotels make money for investors.

Debbie Feldman on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-feldman-2932203/

TCOR Hotel Partners
https://tcorhp.com/

Hotel B School
https://hotelbschool.com/hotel-real-estate/

Other Episodes You May Like:

181: Smoky Light Pole with Tommy Beyer
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/181

184: Hotel Room Saddle with Lan Elliott
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/184

175: $7,000 Vacuums with Micajah Sturdivant
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/175

Mike Messeroff spent three decades in hospitality and was JetBlue's first intern before swapping corporate partnerships for a life of travel and a career behind the bar. A low point in paradise led him to mindfulness, daily meditation, and ultimately leadership coaching for hospitality executives. Today, he's launching the Self Hospitality Collective, offering bite-sized audio guidance and practical practices for leaders. Susan and Mike talk about meditation, mindfulness, and modern management.

What You'll Learned About:

• JetBlue's first intern by "accident"? Mike turns a chance aisle chat with the CEO into a career.

• Daydreaming of beach life? Mike says you'll pack your baggage either way, so do the inner work first.

• Breckenridge paradox: daily skiing + dream town ≠ joy; anxiety became the wake-up call.

• "Happiness is uncaused." (Yes, that line stops the show—and your doom-scroll.)

• Self Hospitality = treating yourself like the VIP in your lobby: restocked, respected, and not running on fumes.

• Meditation is non-negotiable. Even 3 minutes builds that "magic gap" between trigger and response.

• Gratitude hack: you can't be stressed and thankful at the same time.

• For the "no-woo" crowd: real-world ROI—lower cortisol, better focus, fewer dish-smashing meltdowns.

• Micro-practices for brutal days: one conscious breath, a three-minute reset, a mindful reminder ("I'm here to solve problems").

Our Top Three Takeaways

1. Inner Work Comes Before Outer Change

Mike's story shows that changing your surroundings, whether by moving to a beach in the Caribbean or skiing daily in Colorado, doesn't guarantee happiness. Wherever you go, you bring yourself with you. True fulfillment comes from addressing patterns like negative self-talk, stress, or self-medication. External shifts may feel exciting, but without the inner work, they won't resolve deeper struggles.

2. Self-Hospitality Is Essential for Leaders

Mike's concept of self hospitality is about treating yourself like your most honored guest. Just as hoteliers go above and beyond for VIPs, leaders should extend that same care inward: practicing consistent meditation (even for just three minutes), cultivating gratitude, setting clear boundaries, and pursuing personal passions. When leaders nurture themselves, they can give from a place of overflow rather than depletion—ultimately benefiting their teams, guests, and organizations.

3. Joy and Happiness Are Our Natural State

Mike emphasizes that happiness is "uncaused," meaning we are born joyful, but stress, fear, and external pressures layer over it. Through mindfulness practices like meditation and gratitude, leaders can reconnect with that natural state and create a "magic gap" between stress and response. This not only prevents burnout but also models healthier, more sustainable leadership in an industry prone to overwork and high stress.

Mike Messeroff on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemesseroff/

The Carpe Diem Company
https://www.mikemesseroff.com/

Other Episodes You May Like:

130: Guard Dog Negotiations with Melissa Maher
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/130

88: Dating App Surprise with Karen Laos
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/88

192: Fluff and Fold with Shelley Brown
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/192

Josh Kremer is the co-founder of Paradero Hotels, a Baja-born luxury brand blending boutique resorts with destination management to create immersive, off-grid experiences. A classically trained chef who pivoted into real estate private equity, Josh brings both palate and P&L to building small-scale, high-touch hospitality. Susan and Josh talk about remote resorts, resourceful resourcing, and refined service.

What You'll Learn About:

• From chef whites to term sheets: Josh Kremer's zigzag from kitchens to Blackstone to founding Paradero Hotels.

• Why "experiential luxury" beats "bikinis + margaritas," and how Paradero designs trips that spill far beyond the property line.

• Off-beach on purpose: picking a site framed by five ecosystems to unlock creative freedom (and way better adventures).

• Oasis IRL: how Baja's mountains create desert lagoons—and a top birdwatching haven—without cartoon mirages.

• The unsexy backbone of remote hospitality: fiber pulls, buried power lines, backup gen, daily procurement runs, and a fleet of guide-led vehicles.

• Scale by listening: adults-only → groups/events → families → homes; growing to 92 keys while keeping density low.

• Where guests are pointing next: Riviera Maya (not in Cancun), Riviera Nayarit, plus eyes on Oaxaca, San Miguel, and Valle de Guadalupe.

• Hiring where others won't: local-first, import managers when needed, and invest in great staff housing for a "soft landing."

• The 10x Rule: whatever effort you think it'll take, multiply by ten (site selection alone jumped from ~20 to 800!).

• A perfect Paradero day: sunrise views → surf coaching → chef-driven breakfast → pool + temazcal → farm tasting → cliffside sunset → stargazing net.

1. Expect 10x More Work Than You Think

Josh stresses what he calls the "10x rule": however much effort you think a project will take, multiply it by ten. From evaluating 800 sites before selecting one to interviewing 20 architects before choosing a partner, the reality of launching a hospitality venture is far more demanding than anyone could have anticipated. The lesson applies broadly: if you're starting something ambitious, prepare for an order of magnitude more persistence, patience, and problem-solving than your first instinct suggests.

2. Culture Shapes Business—and Guest Experience

Having lived in both Mexico and the U.S., Josh highlights how family-centric culture in Mexico contrasts with the U.S.'s emphasis on individualism. Understanding and respecting those differences helps him build both teams and guest experiences. The broader takeaway: Leaders who work across borders, or even within different communities, need to tune in to local cultural values. This can guide not only how you manage staff but also how you design meaningful customer experiences.

3. Operating in Remote or Nontraditional Locations Requires Creative Infrastructure

Running a semi-remote property is as much about mastering logistics as it is delivering luxury. Josh described pulling fiber from a distant city, burying power lines to protect the guest experience, and organizing daily supply runs. The big lesson is that unconventional opportunities often require unconventional solutions. If you're drawn to an out-of-the-box idea, success may depend on investing early and heavily in the unglamorous operational backbone.

Josh Kremer on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-kremer-bb904a26/

Paradero Hotels
https://www.paraderohotels.com/

Other Episodes You May Like:

159: 15-Day Career with Gustavo Viescas
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/159

165: Purple Flower Luxury with Florence Li
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/165

74: Calm and Nurturing Ghost with Trisha Pérez Kennealy
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/74

Happy anniversary, Top Floor!

Calvin Tilokee is the founder and creative director of RevPAR Media, blending 20+ years of revenue management and marketing with a sharp creative streak. Known for illuminating hospitality brands and roasting industry quirks with his beloved hotel-meme persona, @revparblems, Calvin bridges data, strategy, and humor. On this anniversary episode, he flips the script as guest host, guiding a lively tour through pandemic pivots, podcast production, and personal pet peeves.

What You'll Learn About:

• Where Susan found the nerve to launch a business without a cash cushion or safety net.
• Calvin's own origin story: furlough → pandemic pivot → RevPAR Media, full steam ahead.
• The birth of Top Floor: from "Going Up" to the brand you know (and why the original name got nixed).
• Why the show expanded beyond marketing, and why that makes it more fun (and nosier).
• Production secrets: heavy prep, tight edits, and Susan's biggest guest pet peeves.
• The fan favorites everyone mentions: the sister episodes (aka laugh tracks with plot).
• What's next: more episodes, collabs, maybe a digital magazine, and some video—selectively.
• Dream guests: Cindy Gallop and Sara Blakely (manifesting!).
• Big swings Susan wants to try: investigative series + hospitality history deep dives.
• Legacy goal: helping pros discover dream roles they didn't know existed.
• Three Loading Dock stories for the price of one… but you'll have to listen for that.

Our Top Three Takeaways:

1. Entrepreneurship isn't about perfect timing or eliminating all risk.

Susan launched Hive Marketing in 2009 without savings or a safety net, betting that the chaos of the financial crisis made "failure" reputationally safe, and she's never looked back.

2. Top Floor's edge is curiosity + craft.

The show evolved from a marketing niche to a "curiosity cabinet" for the entire hospitality industry, staying audio-first with tight editing and meticulous preparation, and measuring success by growing influence and genuine relationships.

3. The next chapter is expansion and experimentation.

Susan's eyeing more episodes, collaborations, a digital Top Floor magazine, selective video/live moments, and investigative or history-of-hospitality series, aiming to surface hidden career paths and inspire listeners while the industry modernizes to match guest behavior.

Calvin Tilokee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/calvintilokee/

RevPAR Media
https://www.revparmedia.com/

Susan Barry on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susandbarry/

Hive Marketing
https://www.hive-marketing.com/

Top Floor
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/

Female Founders in Hospitality
https://femalefoundersinhospitality.com/

Cindy Gallop's Brain-Altering HBR Article
https://hbr.org/2022/04/stop-criticizing-women-and-start-questioning-men-instead

Other Episodes You May Like:

03: Dude, Calm Down with Calvin Tilokee
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/03

53: It's Your Birthday 🎂
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/53

Playlist: Shenanigans
https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/category/Shenanigans