Episode 238 comes in response to a request from a long-time PBSE listener. Here's her submission—

Can you talk about the "3 second rule" and why it’s not an ok rule?! Many people talk about it and/or say they’ve read, heard, or had addicts, partners, therapists, suggest this rule. I love the way you’ve described what crap that is because an addict's mind doesn’t need 3 seconds to go to addiction thoughts. I can’t recall if you’ve ever talked about it on PBSE. I think maybe, but on D2C, I’ve heard you talk much more specifically about how that’s a crap idea. Thanks guys! I think it could help so many people to know that it’s not a good rule or way to avoid scanning and objectifying. And that using tools like mindfulness… and having a plan before going out and for each and every action through the day is a better way.

• First, what is the “3-Second Rule”?
• Why did it become a “thing” over the years? How is this “quick-fix/treating-the-symptom” vs. “real recovery and change”?
• The “3-second rule” would be considered a very basic recovery concept
  • Based around trying to curb urges around scanning, objectifying, or other voyeuristic behaviors.
  • The notion behind it may be “good” in some ways, but has shown to become problematic for addicts in recovery:
    • A lot can happen in 3 seconds!
    • Can/has been interpreted as “giving permission” to look, so long as it's for a short time.
    • It focuses way too much on the “don’ts” and not enough on the “do’s."
    • It doesn’t bring about lasting change—focuses only on symptom management
• What to do instead?
  • "Check your intention at the door"—What am I here for? How am I "purpose-driven"?
  • Plan in advance—what will I do WHEN, not if, triggers come up for me?
  • Create easy access to "centering" resources - phone calls, reach-out texts, virtual meetings, etc.
  • Tools—surrender, empathy, practicing holistic connection—humanizing.
  • Practicing being FULLY PRESENT in a situation

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In this Episode 237, Mark and Steve get passionate in responding to the heart-felt submission by a PBSE listener. Here's what she shared—

In My partners and I are now 12 months into our journey and I have been doing really well for the most part. I had been feeling like I was really getting on top of my betrayal and processing everything that happened. I felt as though my partner was also doing well, we had been communicating well and he had stopped masturbating and looking at porn and speaking to other women. It felt like my partner and I were really coming back to a place where I could trust him again. That was, up until yesterday..... We had our second polygraph test to verify the last 12 months and he failed. He sat in the room with the therapist and I and said over and over again that he had nothing to hide and that the test was wrong. Eventually he let the lies come out. Non disclosures, contacting an ex partner on one occasion, looking up ex partners online. I won't go into every detail and I will admit that compared to the initial betrayal these things are small in comparison, but why do they feel so BIG to me? I feel like the wound I had been so close to healing has been ripped wide open again and all the pain from the initial betrayal is as raw as it was in the beginning. I know that these things are 'slips' and not a full relapse but it hurts the same as if it was. To make it worse my partner has now decided that he doesn't trust our current therapist and is seeking another therapist who doesn't specialize in addiction of any kind. I feel lost, scared and completely shattered. I feel like I'm back to square one. How do I come back from this? How do I get past the lies?

First, our hearts go out to all of the Betrayed Partners listening—just when you dare to hope again; just when you start to risk vulnerability; just when some deposits have been made to the trust account—BAM! The scabs get ripped off–all the TRAUMA RETURNS!

• The crazy hard side of “complex trauma”
• There is a reality that “recovery is a trajectory” but how in the world does a betrayed partner deal with that?! And how does that not become an excuse for the addict?
• WHY does an addict in recovery choose to behave this way? What is the “lying” REALLY about?
• We’ve been talking about this in D2C—Personal Boundaries and consequences/outcomes that the addict PLACES ON HIMSELF based on HIS OWN WANTS, NEEDS AND ESPECIALLY THE VISION OF HIS AUTHENTIC, HIGHER SELF!
• As long as the addict chooses to stay in a defensive/reactive place, he will keep falling back into old habits like lying.
• Yes, real recovery is NOT an event–it is a “trajectory” BUT—
  • His addict brain will latch onto this and use it as an excuse to “stay put”
  • What does “trajectory” mean? What are the crucial steps/tools to use when a slip or relapse takes place???
• Feeling like you’re at “square one” is SO understandable, but NOT accurate!
• “How do I come back from this” is replaced with “How do I move forward?”
• Again, from D2C—What do “boundaries with consequences/outcomes” look like?
  • Cleary identify your individual wants and needs (authentic self) and clearly voice them to your addict partner
  • Clearly identify and voice the boundaries that protect your authentic self, wants and needs
  • Match up to your wants, needs and boundaries consequences/outcomes designed to GET YOU BACK TO YOUR AUTHENTICITY
• Hopefully the addict in recovery is doing the very same process on HIS SIDE
• Then and ONLY then, can you come together as a couple to collaborate on your “joint vision.”

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Episode 234 comes in response to TWO situations/questions sent to PBSE by porn/sex addicts in recovery. Here’s a brief overview of each—

The first has been addicted to porn since he was 14 and is now well into his adult years. He was in a relationship for 3 years before disclosing his addiction. In his own words he says—Since then I have lied about recovery; was in active addiction while supposedly practicing recovery; gaslit, verbally and psychologically abused my partner for years. I lied in my disclosure and also failed a polygraph test. I triangulated her with therapists and friends.

As would be obvious, all of this has severely impacted his partner. Here’s what he shares about that—My partner has suffered greatly from everything I have done. She is extremely depressed and doesn't know how to feel better. We spend a lot of time talking about all the issues, and even more so when I continue my bad behaviors. She feels hopeless, that I don't love her, and that I don't desire her. She believes that I will never be able to love her like she deserves. I love her—but I have failed multiple times to show that I desire her and want her. Demonstrating the opposite.

This addict appears to have finally become serious about recovery—he attends 12-Step meetings, has a Sponsor, has worked with a CSAT therapist, and has become completely honest. He is “sober” from porn, BUT, he still feels himself holding back, returning to old behaviors, not being “emotionally sober,” present and transparent, etc. He asks PBSE, “What do I really want? Am I lying to myself about this whole recovery thing? Do I just not care and I’m just being a whiny child?!”

The second submission comes from a porn/sex addict who has been in serious recovery for the last 7 ½ years. He attends multiple 12-Step meetings each week, works with a CSAT, has a solid outside support system that he connects with daily, BUT here’s his frustration—

Yet I still act out every 2-3 months on average* and I am NOT okay with this. While better than before (2-3 times/week), it is so frustrating to have all this experience and wisdom, yet to not be able to surrender a craving. Every relapse feels like a different reason (shame, fear, overwork, resentment, pain, exhaustion, rest, fun) and I need a PhD in psychology to find the heart issues before they become porn issues. My sweet, strong, forgiving wife says she is still with me, though divorce is now on the table. I fear the day she wakes up and feels ridiculous that she's still in this relationship.

In this episode, Mark and Steve get raw and real about what a porn/sex addict needs to do to GET REAL, LASTING SEXUAL & EMOTIONAL SOBRIETY AND RECOVERY!


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In this episode, # 236, the betrayed partner of a porn addict writes a very raw and vulnerable message to PBSE with some deeply poignant, hard-hitting questions. Here's what we received from her—

Hey Mark and Steve, my partner was 4 years porn-free and then relapsed, using porn intermittently for about 8 months before I caught him. He says he's serious now and willing to make an effort. Your podcast has been very helpful for both of us in the weeks since the discovery.

My question is this: why is the knowledge of the abuse in the porn industry not enough to make men quit? I appreciate all the content in the podcast about why quitting porn is essential for a healthy relationship, but I haven't heard you yet discuss why porn is so bad outside of the user's relationship.

My problem with porn is that is made through the abuse, rape, and coercion of the women involved. I wonder how anyone can get off to it and still retain their humanity, to be frank. It's like using porn requires a person to turn off all empathy and objectify the women they're viewing. It requires ignoring the fact that in 99% of cases, she doesn't want to be there and is enduring it for a paycheck she can only hope she actually receives. Given the abundance of porn star testimonials exposing the abuse of the industry, why is that not enough? Why does it have to hurt men personally (through loss of relationships, ED, etc.) before they care about the women it hurts?

While this is a very deep and complex topic, Mark & Steve provide at least an overview and introduction to some of the reasons "why."

• First of all, there are NO legitimate rationalizations, justifications, minimizations or excuses for the choices and behaviors of a porn/sex addict—only explanations. And these have definite limits in their healthy usefulness.

• What is ADDICTION? In 12-Step it is referred to as a “form of insanity.” Here’s what AI had to say—Addiction can be seen as a form of insanity because people with addictions do the same thing repeatedly, even when it has negative consequences, and expect different results.

• Substance Abuse vs. “Process Addictions”—BOTH trigger the body into releasing its own “endogenous feel-good chemicals." Under the influence of alcohol, drugs, porn, and other "addiction outlets," what is “real” and “not real” in the “narrow Funnel” becomes impossible for the Limbic System of addict brain to discern.

• But WHY go there at all?! For myriad reasons (shame, fear, abuse, trauma, insecurity, taking the easy way/avoiding the hard, survival . . . the individual discovers his “go-to-place"—his instant escape, avoidance, pleasure-hit, etc and once that “link” is made, WATCH OUT!!! We talk about being “BLHASTed” triggering the addict to move into the addiction Funnel. BE VERY WARY OF THAT FUNNEL BECAUSE ONCE INSIDE, YOU GIVE UP YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE!

• This leads to “Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde syndrome”—Mr. Hyde throws everyone and everything Dr. Jekyll cares about under the bus. It’s “limbic vs. Logic;” Authentic, True Self vs. The Imposter. An otherwise caring, compassionate, decent man who sees "whole people," becomes a cold, calculating man who sees only “pieces and parts" of others, like he's looking through a drinking straw.

• With all of this, WHERE IS THE HOPE? It's as simple as "Steps 1, 2 & 3." It's about getting UNDER THE SYMPTOMS AND TRIGGERS; addressing the BLHASTed feelings FAR IN ADVANCE! You absolutely CAN step progressively into your TRUE, AUTHENTIC SELF; RESTORE YOUR HUMANITY, COMPASSION, SEEING WHOLE PEOPLE, ETC.!

• Partners—our hearts go out to you–the horrific betrayal is NOT your fault; you don’t deserve it in any way and you can’t MAKE

In Episode 235, a PBSE listener writes in to ask Mark & Steve for guidance on how to best support his partner going forward. The couple were together off and on for 11 years and then married for the last 10 years. During the entire span of 21 years, he has struggled with sex/porn addiction and alcohol abuse. Recently, he got serious about getting into recovery, for both his alcohol dependency and his sex/porn addiction. As an essential part of his recovery and her healing, under the direction of a therapist, they engaged in their first "Discovery Day," where the truth about his decades-long addictions, gaslighting, lying, manipulation, etc., came out into the light. He seems determined to keep moving forward in his recovery and is asking, "Now what? How can I be there for her in this time immediately after disclosure and going forward?"

Mark and Steve call upon their decades-long experience with all aspects of the Disclosure process and what it takes for an addict to continue progressing in recovery and help his partner start and continue healing from betrayal trauma—

• All “disclosures” are not created equal! There are a number of parts of the addict’s submission that cause concern—
  • He indicates he wasn’t fully prepared for the Disclosure. What does it realistically take to “be prepared”?
  • They only had a 45-minute session set aside for D-day. Why might this be a problem?
  • It appears that the continuance of his disclosure and her questions happened 2 days later and then again 2 days after that—and apparently without the therapist. Where can this approach go wrong?
  • What ARE the parts of an effective Disclosure? The 3 FOUNDATIONAL FOOTINGS—Disclosure; Impact; and Amends.
• After all three parts of a formal Disclosure, THEN WHAT?
  • This is NOT a “one and done”! It's an “intimacy doorway” we walk through and it is just the beginning.
  • Going forward is all about “Living Amends” on the part of the addict in recovery.
  • Consistency, consistency, consistency—a trajectory/up-ward spiral that includes many efforts on the part of the addict including leaning in; leading out; proactively pursuing recovery; proactively anticipating and participating in the healing partner's needs, and more.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 233, Mark & Steve respond to a very heart-felt submission from a betrayed partner, who asks some very hard questions about her relationship with a partner who is a porn/sex addict in recovery. Here's what she submitted to PBSE—

Hi Mark and Steve, I’m feeling a lot of apathy in my marriage and I don’t understand the point in staying. I’ve been with my husband for two years and married for less than six months. We have been separated for two weeks now because he has kept relapsing on porn. I have been previously married and initiated the divorce when I realized I was in a psychologically abusive marriage. My current husband has the pattern of—a [new disclosure day,] then a honeymoon period where he makes changes and has lots of epiphanies, and then within a couple of weeks he slides backwards and then he is shocked when he relapses again. This time around it looks like he is throwing himself into recovery: 12 step attendance, therapy, daily accountability partner, journaling, meeting with our religious leader. But I just don’t believe in any of it. I’m waiting for the cycle to repeat itself. I go to my own support groups and I listen to these sad women and the whole time I’m thinking, “why are we putting up with this? Why are we risking our well-being for the slim chance our addict spouses will change decades of ingrained behavior?” I want to leave. I know life goes on after divorce. I know I’ll be ok. Currently I stay because God has told me to give it more time. But I am not interested in being another woman whose spouse is still relapsing years later. Could you please tell us spouses what’s the point in staying? What is there to be gained for us?

- In the Dare to Connect program, we are currently diving deep into what it means to get in-tune with one's authentic wants and needs in a relationship and how to set healthy boundaries around this authenticity.

- Too often in our culture, it's not safe to express true wants and needs, or we're used to them not being consistently met anyway, so we naturally default to hopelessness, apathy and exhaustion.

- How can betrayed partners peel back the layers on what they truly and authentically want and need at their deepest core--and HOW can they voice these and place healthy boundaries around them?

- How can a betrayed partner use a "Pros & Cons" list to get raw and real in the decision about whether to stay or go—and how can she talk openly and vulnerably with her addict partner about this list?

- For many betrayed partners, it IS authentic to keep having hope, being optimistic and keep seeing the good in their addict partners. But are there limits on this approach? When does it leave the realm of being "authentic"?

- Why a betrayed partner should ALWAYS make life-altering decisions from a place of EMPOWERMENT and NEVER from a boxed-in place of helplessness.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In PBSE Episode 232, Mark & Steve respond to a listener's experience and questions with regard to the approach to Betrayal Trauma healing that PBSE and Dare to Connect take, vs. the experience in 12-Step groups. Here's what the partner of a porn/sex addict submitted to PBSE—

Is it me or are the approaches of partner-oriented 12-step fellowships the opposite of the recovery approach taken in PBSE podcasts? The podcasts are all about connection and boundaries. The partner’s 12-step fellowship I attend feels all about ignoring your partner's actions and not letting his actions hurt you. And doing what makes you happy? So it’s about disconnection…. Right? Why is it that they (12-Step groups) are popular on both reddit and your podcasts? Am I seeing this wrong?? Or is there something about those 12 step fellowships that I don’t understand??

On the surface, the approach in PBSE/Dare to Connect vs. 12-Step for partners, can in some ways seem very different. However, they actually are the same fundamental approach, but from two different directions!

Here are essentially the two questions/observations about 12-Step, presented by this betrayed partner—

“It’s all about ignoring your partner’s actions… right?”

- NO! It’s about SURRENDERING your partner’s actions, focusing on yourself (including your trauma & pain) and what you CAN control, which is boundaries built first around your own safety, needs and wants, and then incorporated properly into a committed relationship. This allows for personal healing and the most optimal functioning of the relationship. As recovery and healing progress, a partner uses healthy boundaries to create safety and expectations for what is needed for the rebuilding of trust and moving toward deeper connection.

“It’s all about disconnection…. Right?”

- It's about establishing and holding boundaries around the needs of the self FIRST and learning how to fill your own bucket in healthy ways.

- Depending on how early one is in healing and recovery/how deep the enmeshment trends run in each individual/in the relationship, MAINTAINING LONG-TERM HEALTHY CONNECTION SOMETIMES MEANS SHORT-TERM DISCONNECTION.

- Once personal healing, healthy boundary setting & holding, and healthy sovereignty/independence are happening in a sustainable way, it allows us to authentically connect with those in the world around us, INCLUDING our addict partners.

- Mark and his partner, and Steve and his partner have the best marriages they've ever had, BECAUSE they don’t "need" each other (aren't "needy") the way that they used to. They each work to stand emotionally on their own two feet, and support each other wherever and whenever they can, WITHOUT taking ownership of the other person’s “stuff."

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 231 comes in response to a very raw and real submission by a PBSE listener who is the partner of a sex addict. Here's what she vulnerably expressed—

I’m the partner of a sex/porn addict who has a 3-4 year history of lying about being in “recovery.” Even to sponsors, men groups & therapists. My experience has always been my discovery, never his disclosure, and death by a thousand cuts over the years. He states he is now “taking his recovery seriously.” That’s to be seen. I’m not writing on what to do about him. I’m writing to understand and get closure for myself from an addiction perspective since it has consistently been denied me. When in active addiction or in actual recovery, is it true to believe that sexually and aesthetically I will always be “the lesser thing” or major effort will be required on his part to simply desire me in a way that so many other women are/have been desirable to him? I’ve watched him put tons of effort and protection around his efforts to desire other women. But when it comes to me, there’s absolutely nothing there. No pursuit, no flirting, no dates, no chivalry, no sex, and no love. He acts bored, uninterested and even bothered by my presence. He calls this "being sober." I call it being more than alone and it's led me to consider ACTUALLY being alone rather than suffering while waiting for something that seemingly is never coming. My mental health is demanding I get away from this with urgency. I’ve wanted my family to stay together but not at the detriment of my own health. He’s obviously more interested in other women and my concern is that since I’ve already been determined as “less than” to him, I will never be enough and what he truly desires—even if he does get into real, active recovery.

In this episode, Mark & Steve get raw and real about how to approach this situation form the aspect of a partner that is AUTHENTIC, EMPOWERED, and BOUNDARIED!

How does the partner of a sex/porn addict get in touch with her true, authentic WANTS and NEEDS? What can easily derail this process? What are the obstacles that prevent a partner from fully engaging in the process of determining and expressing these wants and needs?

Why are these wants and needs critical when making life-altering decisions about a relationship?

Why are BOUNDARIES the GRAND KEY to getting wants and needs met OR deciding to move on?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services